Comments on: 1 Lollypop stick

By: gnomeaggedon

gnomeaggedon — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 06:48:18 +0000

Urrghh… I wouldn’t cope in that environment.. we have one guy that likes to point out our failings… we have 9 guys that like to tell him where to shove it…

Most of the time we get it right, most of the time we are having fun… the one consistent time we aren’t having fun, is when te 9 guys forget to tell the one guy where to shove it.

By: Pugnacious Priest

Pugnacious Priest — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 08:33:02 +0000

@Horatio – they get punished too – they were very quickly reminded of the rules when one of them stuffed up. So they didnt really have a choice, but its a fair question as punishments should be equally given out

By: Horatio Lavida

Horatio Lavida — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 07:43:21 +0000

who punishes the leaders

By: Pugnacious Priest

Pugnacious Priest — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 16:06:22 +0000

@ Solid – the guild is great, it just seems that they are looking at that style of punishment for errors when we are failing to do what our skill and gear levels should indicate what we are capable of, and its actually a further stressor worrying about messing up, as Gevlon & larisa said said rather then focusing on doing whats right, and not doing whats wrong.
@Larisa – I want more carrot, not coddling, or carrying through, Its a good atmosphere when we are doing well, I think sonsistant failure is getting everyone down.
@gevlon – no fire dancing idiots – but maybe its the timing – that people are in a malay about raiding, that new content is already more interesting then what is already there, they are a solid guild – maybe my perception is polluted, by that I think I am getting weary but I can’t see them smiliing as we wipe in any case.
@Ana – Im am trying to find the balance, between challange, fun, and comfort, – and there are alot more serious guilds out there, and I cannot see myself wanting it to get more serious then it already is. At the same time I feel priviledged to be able to wipe on Yogg. That its content I have seen, when so many haven’t – but I now will be thinking of calamari when I see those tenticles next.
@Euripides I like the concept of your can’t and won’t principle. We don’t have any Won’ts – and that we have over signs for what is most likely to turn into a all night wipe fest I think indicates the level of commitment that they are willing to make. – Experience is however more wiping, we don’t have a discussion as to how we failed a particular fight which I think is an important part of the carrot, it increases peoples understanding, and thus experience,

By: euripidesoutdps

euripidesoutdps — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 14:06:16 +0000

Raiding guilds need to have a lot of carrot, and just enough stick to get rid of the lazy. Typically this means mostly positive reinforcement (happy raiders try harder) with some general rules and expectations. Telling people to avoid spawning adds, always have flask and food, and be on time, for example, are perfectly good ideas. And since most people agree on principle, any violations will probably clear themselves up.

The only time punishment should be used is if someone knows the rules, disagrees, and chooses to do things their way. Failing at a mechanic should not be punished as that’s a skill that people will learn faster when they’re positively reinforced, however being consistently 10 minutes late because “it’s just a game” should be. And of course, punishment shouldn’t be measured out in small doses- it should be verbal warning, written warning, gkick or loss of raiding slot.

Really, there’s only two sources of problems for raids. Can’t and won’t. One of these can be fixed with experience, training, or technique changes. The other can’t be fixed short of replacing a raider.

By: Ana

Ana — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 13:51:44 +0000

For me is no need to be so deadly serious in a game you play in your spare time for fun. Or maybe there is if what you enjoy is the kill and you don’t care how you get there. But there are other ways – a balance between fun-through-trying and fun-through-killing.

I always marvel at the complexities ‘serious’ raiding guilds create – bank tabs, officers, attendance, DKP. Some of the guilds do go on to hit ‘world firsts’ – something I will never do. But others seem to end up at the same place as my fun raiding guild with no officers, no DKP, and only 6 hrs of raiding a week… staring at the tentacles, making calamari jokes… or not.

By: Gevlon

Gevlon — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 11:39:40 +0000

I agree to punish actions of negligence like not being buffed or AFK 10 minutes.

However punishing actions that are done because of not being skilled enough yet backfires. Instead of trying to be the best, they focus on not messing up. Spawning an add is smaller problem than having 50% casting activity since you move all the time to get miles away from clouds.

I spawned an add from a cloud. I kittie-dashed into the tank. He picked it up, and went down with the rest. Some minutes later I had a new hat and we went to Steelbraker.

I don’t know your guild. If it’s newly formed or reformed, it may need cleansing from firedancing idiots. In such periods punishments help the idiots finding the /gquit command. But these must be periods, not a normal way of life.

By: Larísa

Larísa — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 10:35:08 +0000

I believe more in carrots than in sticks. It’s possible that there are guilds who are happy and successful using a punishment philosophy, but honestly, it sounds absolutely awful to me. I’m pretty sure you can succeed using a more positive approach. People should be focused – yes, but if they’re on their toes out of fear of failing, I’m afraid the nervosity that comes with it will have the oppositve effect, causing them do silly mistakes just because they’re so tense.

In a guild with a good atmosphere a wipe night at Yogg can be a pleasure. But what you’re describing sounds just like a pain.

By: Solidstate

Solidstate — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 07:37:29 +0000

> How is that fun?

It sure doesn’t sound like fun. Sounds like a guild I would leave in an instant…