Posts Tagged 'BG'

Why don’t you walk away

We are all very good at tunneling.  in BG’s epic battles can be waged around control over an uncapped node involving half the players from both sides.

When you take a breath, and look up at the scoreboard,  the other team has managed to cap 3 nodes, and you only have stables.  The fight over this one uncapped node has distracted your team that much that enough time has passed for the other side to get a decent lead.

The healers could be merrily healing away – you get into this zone watching green health bars,  throw a fear out in your hit capped healing set so all your fears don’t fail.  La la laaaa la di dah,    Bubble, flash, renew,  Penance on a bad one,  heal them up,  more bubbles, oh look barriers up,  fear, holy nova to stop that sneaky rogue cap. La di dahhhh

Then you realize its been going on too long and the dps your healing aren’t targeting their healers

[Battleground] [ Zahraah] Kill the healers!

[Battleground] [Zahraah] Target their healers!

La di dah…

So at this point,  your getting ok Hk’s and your healing is looking awesome on the meters ( because the other team is not targeting you  either )  Technically you are doing your job. Your healing.  No one is complaining about your healing, people are staying alive.  What else are you supposed to do

Walk away?

/scoff

But if you walk away they will all die,  and so will you most likely once that me hunter you prey instinct kicks in and the enemy team go ” look squishy trying to run away kill kill kill !

Zahraah dies

But so do the rest of the people your healing at an unsuccessful node cap and by that point your team now has to come back from a 3 -4 node cap.

People who fight on the roads,   will stay on that road if there is a healer enabling them to fight. It’s a hard thing to do, to ride past that person with half a health bar.

So yes,  walking away could be the best thing you do, to enable your  team to refocus because as long as they are staying alive,  they will just keep tunneling

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Pvping in BG’s – WSG

So Spiritual guidance had a piece on the basis of Shadow Priest Pvp today and is correct in that the ‘randomness’ of Pvp it’s hard to tell people what to do,  especially on the scale of a BG. I realized that for someone who does an awful lot of battlegrounds and shares I guess general experiences in BG’s  – I don’t actually say many things useful for a person wanting to know what a Shadow Priest, can or should do in a BG
There is lots of difficulty  in explaining how to pvp – and there is how I do stuff, and there is how they do stuff, so it’s very much open to criticism, or interpretation, it’s also very circumstantial and  it’s a forced team sport. The less people in the BG contributing to the success in a meaningful manner mean the less likely you will win, and if you have 10 or more people running with multiple ideas of ‘what they think is right’  it’s not  easy.
  I was hoping there would be more stuff around on rated BG’s but there doesn’t seem to be.  I had envisaged people reading  the great military generals, the classic strategists and applying them to rateds. My own experience in rateds have been restricted to trade pugs and random gatherings  and given I have resisted the call of raiding I think if I found a stable Pvp Guild that did rateds seriously and  with more regularity in my peak playing times then just for the points I would jump ship/server
 Because I’ve never talked about what I do in a Bg,   I  plan on breaking this down into individual posts one for each BG . It’s a discussion, it’s what I do – and I may not always be right.
I’m starting WSG because it’s the BG I played the most.
Initial Zerg
Both sides like to zerg,  or run together to the other teams flag room.  Most of the time though 10 people don’t make it to the other end. Some people go ramp,  some tunnel,  some wander off midfield,  or get stopped or killed along the way.
If we are in semi premade  ( 5 grouped party members or less ) we will cut the horde’s zerg off  – best case we wipe them/split them up over rez timers so we don’t have a concentrated assault for any future offense.
They usually don’t expect to have their zerg interrupted, so like lost deer they will stand mid field hesitating on their mounts  blinking in shock.
By the time they have recovered we have targeted the healers and are taking them down one by one, and pushing them back towards their rez point.
People also get tunnel vision,  present them with a target and they will forget that their real aim should have been to ride/sneak past us and head to the flag room and instead they dismount engage in combat.
We break up their Zerg because  It’s demoralizing, and it makes sense to delay their first flag grab, while the rest of your team grabs theirs . When you all  run out of the starting room together, your united,  your a Team. GO TEAM!  Break up that team, and have people rezing in different 30 sec rez time means that their team of 10 becomes 4 or 5 and are much easier to deal with and contain, and your less likely to have larger groups chasing after your flag carrier.
( Ideally because the Horde have committed themselves to offense  the rest of our team has already grabbed the flag and are running towards mid field to ‘us the defenders’ who can assist by cleaning up an attacking horde and giving the flag carrier an escort)
If I am Solo, and  If I feel like being a pain – I’ll head them off on my own. This is a suicide mission,  and the aim is to delay them/break them up or even just pee them off.
Try to drop a Fear in the middle of their Zerg. Some will dismount to kill you  Trinket out of their initial stuns, Psychic horror a melee,  Silence a caster,   Shield, and when about 40k health I then disperse, and jump around for 6 secs making the melee chase me,  hoping that my fear is off cool down so I can get one last fear bomb off before I collapse and die. Why do it?,  if I get can get them to dismount then I have succeeded in breaking their zerg.
Chasing Flag Carriers
When your flag does get picked up by the opposing team As a Shadow Priest you can  /tar the flag carrier and Mind vision them to see where they are at.  (I Like Mind Vision in BG’s ) Report their location, Ping the map/tell Bg/ and the defence crew can clean them up. My Mindvision will fail if they are in the tunnel and I am mid field, once they become in line of site in the tunnel ( stand in front of tunnel) , I can then target them. If they run up top  I can report that they are going Ramp or GY.  Sometimes the Flag carrier seeing his is being Mind V’d starts doing stupid things, stops mid tunnel, runs back,  or  will hesitate and forget that they are supposed to getting that flag  to their base and will run off into all sorts of weird side directions to hide.
Flag carriers can be pesky things if they can blink, or have a speed boost.  It’s all very well  to kill the healer first,  but  sometimes you need to make sure the flag carrier doesn’t out run you, and their healer. It can be hard to get out of combat in time to mount up and chase ( and they don’t need heals if you can’t run after them fast enough to hit them)  Fear/Psychic horror to get them to stop running in a straight line.  Then if you have team members around you,  keep them slowed by spamming Mindflay – as long as you have that channeled on them it gives the rest of your team time to dps them down, and can more useful than if you were doing normal dps rotation on them.
Don’t forget your fiend.  He hits reasonably hard, and can be annoying when he is wailing on the flag carrier is also something you can throw at them while your running to get close enough to stand and cast.
Spell wise, Devouring plague has a damage on application affect, so if you can’t stop and cast Mindblast or Mindflay then chasing them while keeping SWP on them,  Shadow word deathing on Cool down, fiending,  and spamming DP on them for the intial damage I find helps get their health down.
Learn to Peel, Mcing the healer is one way to shut them up/interrupt their casting/ Slow  or CC the flag carriers support crew so it makes it harder for them to help the FC, but don’t get distracted and end up having epic mid field battles.
I am also glyphed for a faster casting Mass dispel,  great for getting team mates out of hungering cold,  or mage circles, and removing buffs from the enemy.
Being the Flag carrier.
I wrote this test Post a while back. It’s not ideal to be the flag carrier. It doesn’t matter how much resilience you have,  if you’re getting attacked stunned, feared silenced your going to need help.
I don’t take the flag if I’m in the Zerg – other people want to fight over the privilege, and you often have no idea if just because they are in Pvp gear, are plate wearers or have large health pools,  that they won’t do stupid things like get into a bike as a passenger and drop the flag,  or vanish, or shadow Meld,  or try to hop on their mount, you can try to support the person who is flag carrying ( until they prove that they are bad at flag carrying)
This may mean that you need to help heal/shield. That post pretty much covers all the things we can do to keep ourselves alive.
If no one else is going for the flag and no one is near then I will pick it up and try and carry it. Be sneaky,  wait in the doorway up top until a rez wave happens and they aren’t looking back at their own base,  I favor going up the sides. Not everyone has distance enabled on their views, and may have difficulty seeing you on screen.  When they do catch up do your best to keep them off you, aim to cc by fearing/horror then stopping and killing.   Dot up enemy’s that are following you so you get your trickle of healing return from Vampiric embrace, and save your trinket/dispersion for when you really need it,  but also don’t die having not used them.
Healing as a Shadow Priest in the BG
I will break out of Shadow form to heal if I HAVE to,  we take additional damage, lose spell damage bonuses, and it costs mana to return back to Shadow form. You are crippling us by assuming  we will break form every time someone needs a top up.  We do not have the mana regen out of shadow form to be great healers.  We can help you,  but eventually we will go oom, and then we get targeted and die anyway( and yelling “Heal me you B*tch priest isn’t going to make me  heal you)
I have a healing bar set up ‘under’ my shadow form bar.  When I drop form my bars change, and I have set up things like fear/shield and some heals on my main buttons  and I use VuhDu the healing mod, so I can cast a healing spell by clicking on the frames to get me out of shadow and heal on the target.   I will drop my form if I can see that I will help you.  If you have no resilience, and getting attacked by 6 horde. your written off as a lost cause. But there are Shadow Priests that absolutely refuse to drop form.  Me it really depends.
If you can keep the flag carrier alive long enough for the real healer to catch up or even top the FC up if it’s too much for the healer to handle  then it might be a good idea to do it.  We are utility – and if we can be productively flexible and contribute  to the success then we all win ( but don’t do it too often because it will gimp you)
I know that hasn’t covered everything, but I guess depending on how this post is received I will do one for each BG.

I get knocked down – and then I ghost out

I was queuing solo for WSG and most of the BG’s had a premade component to them.

There was 6 from one realm ( they qued  doing a ‘pop’   – all enter at once to bypass the 5 man restriction)  who demanded I go heals.  I have come a long way from the refusing to heal for people.  But Holy in BG’s in painful even when you know your team has your back.  Spurting out some flashes and renews only to be stampeded by the opposing team is not my idea of fun for a complete bunch of strangers.  1.3 resil in a Pvp dps spec, and all the wonderful trappings and stuns, silences and fears  I have,  I was better off staying in Shadow,  and healing if someone  needed –  and they did have hybrids on their own team.  After asking them – why they que’d as premades without heals,  I told them no.  ” I let them down” apparently.

There was a premade from Kilrogg that managed to get 7 in  and they all ghosted out when they found themselves getting farmed by a superior horde team- as per the above Screenshot.  Take my word for it that it wasn’t just a bad rez timer.  Yes stupid me went for the flag anyway – it was better than being a spirit ball ghosting out. I gave the premade some choice words  – eg ” You’re a premade – why aren’t you trying?”  To which most of them responded ”  It’s to0 hard..  or we are gonna lose anyway..   and the BEST response ever to my “See you in the bottom 5% of rated” was  “Your wrong – there will be people worse than we are”

I told them they had an opportunity to try different stats,   and not stand in the GY getting farmed.  If I could sneak over every time.  Down the ramp,  over the tunnel,  so could some of them if they had tried.

I’ve been a farmer.  It’s a strat that works.  Keep them in the GY.  This only works if the team is stupid enough to stay in the GY. So yes it works often – don’t be stupid.  Think outside the GY.

I was perusing a guilds recruitment website the other day, and one of the questions was a long the lines of picking a song that represents your attitude to progression, and wiping has always been the realm of PVE,  and Arena,  and now it will be BG’s as well.

The best song that comes to mind for me is the chorus to Tubthumping

I get knocked down
But I get up again
You’re never going to keep me down

Or because I remember the hours, and the deaths of Progression dying –  Stone Sours  Made of Scars

Yeah, cut right into me
Yeah because I am made of Scars
Yes I am made of scars

Getting knocked down, and collecting a few battle scars has always been the way progression goes. I’ve done it in Pve

and in Pvp

If you want to go places you need to die few times.  Get back up,  try again,  and do it differently.  They would have felt so much more better if they had worked as a team instead of Ghosting out.

Winning by demoralising the enemy

The Calvary jumps over the embankment,  and the hooves of the array of mounts hit the dusty ground with a thump.   They thunder across the grass, leaves and dirt flying out behind them,   hands hold tight to reigns,  bodies bent forward  into the wind, they are off and racing……..

Whoa….

They all stop.  Pull up the reins of their mounts.  hesitant.  Their mounts stamp impatiently,  tossing their heads in frustration at having their charge broken, because up ahead,  just over the rise ,  already firmly planted,  with spells charging, and weapons ready,  the enemy is waiting for them.

There is what we call the ‘clean up.’  Meet the horde head on  in the middle of their zerg run, and wipe them up.  It sounds a bit like honor farming, considering at that time we aren’t heading straight to the their flag room.  The main purpose of this clean up, is to force them all back into their GY, break them up because they will all die at different times and get different rez timers, and most importantly demoralize them.

It’s hard to come back from being obliterated. Any team spirit they managed to muster in that initial push is gone.   They will hesitate when they rez,  some will go afk,  some will try to go around,  and others will just jump blindly into our group only to be cleaned up again, and while we keep them occupied at the base of their graveyard someone breaks off and we go for their flag, all the while looking for leakers that go after ours.

I like the clean up better than the “Lets all  zerg together” strat when we go for your flag,  you go for ours, and we meet in the middle for a glorious battle.

That’s not really demoralizing.  Both teams get this successful feeling of having grabbed the enemy’s flag so will fight harder, you need to snatch away their spirit before they get to touch the flag.

What I shall call a distracting farm, which is more humane than a full farm seems to work quite well.  The opposition get so caught up in the apparent endless cycle of rezzing and dying that they don’t  try to go for the flag.  If you can keep enough people at their base to catch the rezzers, then you control the whole field.  We don’t like to torture, there is more honor points earned, and honor to have by winning the next bg so we do cap the flag somewhat efficiently.

There is a psychology to winning in a BG.   There is only so many times you can hit your head against a brick wall.  Even premades suffer from it.  People are more likely to leave a group after a loss, the earlier on you can shatter the opposing teams confidence,  the more likely you will win.

Bging with 5 man only teams have been interesting – certainly more challenging.  I have been looking at forums for why we are no longer able to queue with more than five people in a BG as a premade,  and not found anything official on it yet, but the consensus seems to that it was done because when rated BG’s come out you queue for rated, and not as pugs, and it would not be fair to allow premades to compete against Pugs.

Maybe at 85 when they have been playing for months and have gotten rewards,  but not now.  There is no gear or opportunity balance.  Everyone has equal access to gear.

So how is this not fair?

I’m going to argue that the main component of unfairness is that people do premades because they want to win.   They want to work as a team.

The real unfair part is that pugs have to deal with people in your own team that basically do not have the same goals as you do, they want to play in the sandpit more than they want to win.  That’s the unfairness –  not who you oppose,  but who you fight with. Your own side is often your worst enemy.

The only thing a Premade has advantage of over a pug is the teamwork.   A premade will work as a team.  A Pug often doesn’t.  So maybe that’s where rated BG’s come in.   Pugs can play in the sandpit.  The serious people will play rated, but that means that the people who don’t want to play rated,  but do want to have fun will be forced to play with the people who cbf’d.

When do you start to get serious about bg’s

40k words!  let me rejoice for  a moment…. 10k to go

Now back to Wow

So I have been doing a fair few server based premades. I lie. When I am logged into my main.  I am either in a BG,  or hanging round a city waiting for someone to leave the group so I can go into a bg.

I even respec’d my offspec as Disc so I could be more useful.  I do ok holy healing ; I just wasn’t getting the respect even if I could spit out the heals faster than an engineer could parachute off the top of our  tunnel in wsg.  ( half way down the field and so hard to catch)   Disc is better.   (well it was.. ) it still feels off to me, nowhere near like disc used to feel like pre talent changes, but if I was going to pvp heal even as an offspec I felt I should take it a little more serious and be in a more ideal spec,  so my main is now two pvp specs ,  Shadow and Disc.     ( just goes to show you have little pve is she is doing at the moment) leveling in Cata will change that though as no one seems to want to pvp untill 85

We faceroll pugs.  We can even faceroll other premades because they seem to have picked up random people from their trade channel.  Put us against a serious team with the right classes,  a few shadowmournes, and a collection of arena achieves and even we are in trouble.  Yes we have have people in our team who don’t really play pvp, people who don’t have resilience, heals in uncomfortable specs, healers who try dps for kicks when the group allows for it.   We are even doing all sorts of achieves for people,  but against the real premades.   That’s the real test and its also been the best challange.  You find out your mettle, and exactly how well you work together as a team.

The groups that strategize, that stick together, protect the flag carrier,  don’t peel off and do their own thing,  that are in the right specs, in the right gear  that CC,  that communicate. If you’re doing  3 of those things,  then your usually at least 2 things ahead of the average joe in a BG.

No matter how good you are, there is always someone better, or more co-ordinated, but as some of our hapless victims have found out,  just cause your a premade  does not make you organised enough to actually react to strategy changes.

My word of the month is ‘disappointed’.  instead of going off at the pugs that don’t want to help,  or start moaning when we haven’t 5 capped ab in 3 min, and that we fail as a premade.   I tell them I am disappointed with their lack of team effort.

Sometimes I wish I think it would be easier to underman the Bg,  because when pugs see premade they are 300% more likely to go afk. No one has asked  – “where do you want me.?”  or ” How can I help”  they beetch and moan when we ask them to go somewhere,  or ignore us completely,  then beetch and moan when they don’t get support on picking up the flag or taking a node.

When we don’t have a full team running,  we do try and work with the pugs.. even support their achievements,  ( yep..  )  if they ask nicely…   we include them in the strat if they prove to be useful, otherwise they become cannon fodder.  Sorry.

Uncooperative pug players seem to die more often..    so where is that heal button?

I can’t be too angry with the Tards and Asshats.  It’s still a game,  I seem to get a better response  when I play the ‘sad and disappointed’ in their behaviour rather than raging at them.  It’s still feeding them, but it is sad and disappointing.  We are supposed to be on the same team  but spend as much time fighting each other.  I really hope that in real life they aren’t the angry little boys/little men/women/ girls that they pretend to be in bg’s.  Cause they would probably have ulcers.

It’s about to get a little more serious now.  If you think BG raging was fun pre rated battlegrounds, well.  There is going to be more to lose now.

So that’s my pvp update.

I shall make more sense when I am not thinking in daily word counts.  It’s easy,  but it’s also creatively hard.  I feel drained,  there has been lots of kicking the voice that says I will fail in the head too, but getting that goal is probably the single most important thing to me at the moment. It’s a weight on my shoulders..  really..  carrying lappy, and charger to work every day plus the normal assortment of  notebooks, pens, reading books, I feel like a packhorse.

Welcome to Bloodlust

I think I should welcome all these new random people who keep popping up in the BLOODLUST Bg’s .Yes you came to us,  not the other way around.

so /wave to the Alliance,  and /mock to the hordies.  I shall  be seeing you all in the BG’s

*grins*

The Battleground matching systems are changing/having changed and I keep seeing all sorts of weird realms in my Lfg’s and Bg’s. I might get to face off my Horde friends on Jubie’thos after all – Mwhahaha.

What it does mean is  there is  larger variety of  realms represented.  eg there will be one from each realm rather than 2 or three, and considering that I have played/play on 3 realms within the old bloodlust group – it was nice  ( and sometimes not so nice) to run into people from time to time I knew/played with.

Besides doing the cross server premades with QueueQ I have been  doing the odd server based semi premade  WSG’s from our ‘fightclub’ chat channel ( no its not called that,  but it is a fight club of sorts)  and even if we can scrounge up just three or four people  it increases our chances of a win, and it’s good to work with people who know what they are doing.

We went up against a Kaz’garoth  premade last night and won.  There was only 4 of us as a premade group,  but it was enough to keep their better players locked up.  People from our group had been disheartened “Oh noes verses a full premade”   but  we headed them off in the middle and cleaned them up – they didn’t seem to have many healers. We  stopped them from getting to our flag room, and a druid was able to sneak in and grab their flag. As soon as we got the first cap – ” We are winning against a premade  I love Bloodlust!” says one of the guys from the new realms. We won 3/0  It wasn’t easy.  They had organisation,  just that their lack of healers hurt them when we were able to wipe them up quicker.

The one BG we lost last night had , us 4 and had a team of 3 from Nagrand  who decided that they would guard the flag room.  After they had told the BG what to do and we let them lead and they spent the first 5 min bickering amongst themselves  about who of them was supposed to do what.  I suggested that given that we were also a premade, and they couldn’t stop arguing perhaps we could take over.  So they waited for us to work our ‘magic’.  ( while still arguing  with each other)  I got a whisper from one apologising for their behaviour ” the girls are excited  and just want to defend the flag room”  I told him I wished they would stop fighting. 

Well they were nicer to us,  but then they started having a go at the rest of the bg.  We lost, and you would think that it would have been easier to work together.

In general I am finding worse behaviour in the pugs. I am not sure if it’s because you really are part of a bigger group of strangers than before, or even just the general cbf’d attitude in the cata lead up.  There was always the chance of queuing with someone from your realm – now it’s a lot slimmer. You can misbehave even more with no consequences.

Do you look after Healers in BG’s?

Yes I have been Pvping a lot. 31900 odd HK’s to go to 100k kills.  It’s going to be a long time.

I was healing an Eye of the Storm this weekend and a little Pally healer  is yelling at people to protect them.  It took me a little while to get close enough to gear check them – and I think my snarky retort in Bg chat of  “It’s a little hard to protect you with 16k Health and no resilence’ probably got completely missed.

Protect the healers – Lol

I don’t expect to get protected at all while healing in a BG.  I have a trinket – I have fear, I have GS,  I have Shadow Meld.  ( Shadow Meld is very useful when getting smacked around by pets of any kind.   Works on  Army of the Dead, hunters pets ect. ) I can also heal myself.  I have to take some responsibility for my own  life – I mean I’m the healer damn it.

It’s not like I can ask a dps to heal me – hopefully they are either destroying the horde, or ccing them, and I am keeping them alive long enough to be more affective.

I have never asked people in a BG to protect the healer. Should a healer expect to be protected?

I work on the principle of  if you get heals in a bg your lucky. There is no target priority in any bg bar the flag carrier in WSG/EOS.  It’s keep up who you can, so if you are getting any heals be grateful. Mana gain in BG’s with that nerf, and  in Pvp gear can be pretty terrible – hence why I am in half pve gear while healing  – in Pvp healing gear it was heal untill your OOM – die then do it all over again, and I know some BG healers don’t even bother with Pvp gear at all. I like to be somewhat harder to kill.

As a dps I don’t do too much to protect healers,  I might fear any melee/pets away from them,  shield them , target their attackers – but not so much because I am protecting a healer, but more because it’s Pvp – and often thinking does not often move past.

OH!  RED  TAG  KILLLLLLL EEEETTT

Fear or death is usually the only thing to get a enemy off a healer anyway, sometimes they don’t notice the healer behind the dps healing their little heart out,  but when someone gets a little smart and ” Kill the healers First” command is issued – well then your healer is in trouble anyway.

I think a 16k health person – healer or not with no resilience is asking WAY too much for people to protect them.  Yes everyone needs to start somewhere – but it’s one of those times I would like to say ” Suck it up princess” because they can’t help you when you can’t even help yourself.

BGs take two…

I think we  also need to start a campaign for Disc Priests and the “Healing Done” on BG boards to include absorptions too.  While they are at it,  add dispels/decurses too.


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