The buzz at the moment, is that some enchanters are stepping up now and saying that we should get to keep the shards we get from DEing loot in an instance. Its come up on my realm forums, and also recently on Wow insider – Who gets to keep the shards?
As an Enchanter I’ve done a couple of instances where I waited patiently for everyone to select their need greed pass, advised them every roll that I am greeding to DE ( because they forget and I get blasted for rolling on an item my class can’t use. ) Sigh with impatience when someone who can’t DE accidentally loots an item by needing. Make room in my bag for the shards, separate the materials I already had in there so they don’t get mixed up, notify everyone how many of each I have, field questions why there are only 2 shards and not three ( because Pug person A rolled that greed) and then dolled them all out to the rest of the party because I lost a roll. How is that fair? Its not fair. But I still do it – because it has been ‘socially unacceptable’ to say frack you, everyone greed.
Going forward that might be a better idea as some of the items vendor more then what the shard sells for.
The most interesting side to the argument has been that Skinners/miners/herbers get to keep what they gain, and we don’t.
I’ve seen DPS suffer because people have been more concerned with skinning things in VH then killing the boss.
I’ve died because people went for a node/herb in an instance and pulled a pack.
I’ve died because stupid me stood on top of a boss in an Aoe effect that continued after death and died because I couldn’t find the item to de in my bags.
I’ve never run an instance where there has been no enchanter, because I’ve always been an enchanter.
If I run with guildys most of them will pass on the shards and roll on the Abyss crystal, Or we donate to the guild bank. I’ve had a couple of pugs pass on the shards too, but only because the value of the shard is not worth the effort to list on the AH.
I agree that the system is unbalanced, if I don’t win a roll there is no incentive for me to DE barr social pressure. It would be an interesting way to start a flame war
“Anyone an enchanter?”
Me.
“Right you can de.”
Unfortunately I can’t be fracked doing it.
For some reason though I feel obligated to use my hard earned , costly trade skill to level,with no real benefit unless I camp trade channels, that I service my guildys and friends for free, a skill that it becomes useless to me once I have enchanted my own gear.
I feel obligated socially to DE stuff on demand – with no gauranteed benifit to myself. I can’t turn myself into that much of a miser to say no. Or lie, or just say nothing when the question is asked. I wish I could.
but I won’t because…..
Why – ? I actually can’t formulate an answer beyond, that is what is socially acceptable. Or Assumed its what we are supposed to do. Its like a priest that won’t heal. We are fighting a stereotype – and everyone else stands there with their hands out expecting their shard.
Could I jump on the bandwagon and shout to the hills by making public statements that I won’t be DEing any more.
I think the resulting social reaction would be interesting. I imagine it would be mainly WTF?
So I will keep DEing. I don’t agree we should keep all the shards. I also don’t agree that we do it for free, but I can’t see a way we could benefit from it beyond getting skill points/a BOP residue we could use for our own personal enchants. As the System stands. I am recommending that Enchanters put away their campaign placards, and do it, and hope that enough people pass enough times for you to feel that you have gotten something from it.
But I can implore those who are not enchanters to stop expecting it. Appreciate it. Be somewhat grateful. Be aware that this persons choice to level their enchanting , is giving you an opportunity to receive an item you wouldn’t ‘normally’ get. So at the very least. Thank the enchanter…
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What would happen if you wouldn’t do what others expect you?
Remember, you were expected to spec holy and you left the guild instead. And you are fine!
You could do it again. Next round when anyone asks “is there an enchanter?” simply be silent. If anyone points out that you are an enchanter, you can still say that you were AFK when the “is there an enchanter?” was asked.
I’d say just all greed the item and if you win it you D/E it and keep the shard, or sell the item on the AH or something.
If you aren’t interested in sharing the shards, then don’t tell anyone you are an enchanter. When the instance is complete, DE your items and there are no hurt feelings/controversy. I do feel that enchanters should be allowed to keep one shard as the shard wouldn’t exist if it weren’t for them. The fact is that when you make it clear you are a DE’er, everyone assumes you are offering to DE for the run.
As for people greeding, it may be an offspec item which I would give higher priority than something getting de’d.
But, on the other hand, to compare what you do to an alchemist or another prof where you need to buy materials and find the reagents doesn’t seem right. Your “hard work” is greeding in an instance and then clicking on an item. Other people have to find nodes etc. It’s not the same. Also, I don’t have to be with 4+ other people to get my herbs. So when you are able to 1-man the content, then you deserve all the shards etc.
If it’s a pug run, I’ve stopped letting people know I can DE. I then just greed everything and decide whether to shard or vendor afterwards. In guild runs, I always put the shards in the bank.
Socially acceptable? No idea, but everyone has the same chance to get the item. If they want a shard in a pug run, they should have leveled enchanting.
Agree with everyone else, just don’t tell people you’re an enchanter. There’s no obligation to provide shards and half the time the shard sells for less than you can vendor the item for anyways (at least on my server where shards are flooding the market). Also, if someone won a need roll earlier in the instance, they shouldn’t be rolling on shards as those are runner up prizes.
I don’t get this campaign. Based purely on probability, enchanters are going to get the same number of shards for themselves either way. Because if enchanters unilaterally decide that from now on they will keep all DE’d shards, then everyone is going to start rolling Greed on items in order to vendor them. And you have the same chance of winning those Greed rolls as the shard rolls at the end of the run. PUGs aren’t going to care that the item will provide more overall utility as a shard, if that shard has no chance of going to them–they’ll take the measly amount of vendor gold instead. If disenchanting is such a burden, then do as the goblin suggests and don’t even mention that you enchant.
@Gevlon – I know I was trying to channel you, when I was thinking about not saying I’m an enchanter.. But I have a soft heart, and unlike healing 🙂 deing won’t put me out too much, and like Isa said, my chances are the same if I de or just greed in getting the item,
@Kry & neverdown – while I think I would find it difficult to do that, I think I shall try – if anything then for the sake of experimentation, however I guess then I run the risk of there being another enchanter who ninjas all the shards then we all lose.
I will experiement – yeps.
@melissa: Good point about needing the others in the instance to get the shards in the 1st place, we can DE out own un-used items, and quest rewards, but we do need the unwanted gear in instances to get our mats.
@Holy – There certainly would be cases where I would be better off vendoring the item, and then buying the shard 😛 except those plums, getting an abyss crystal under 100 gold is pretty lucky, So me winning the greed roll on the plum would be extremly benifical for me, as apposed to someone who couldnt de.
@Isa – I don’t think we will get the enchanters to agree on anything 😛 – we can’t even agree on the tipping protocols. If anything it would also drive up the prices of enchanting mats, because theoretically there would be less of of it.
if Blizzard introduced the ability to de an item in the Do not trade box, then greeding would certainly be more then the norm. Then enchanters could charge for DEing services.
/rant on
First of all, I feel that if you are still leveling Enchanting then I should be able to greed against everyone else and keep shards I get for winning said greed rolls. If you aren’t leveling then I could see why I wouldn’t mind DE unused items and doing rolls at the end of the run.
@Melissa
Just because I say I’m an enchanter doesn’t automatically mean I’m sharding stuff for everyone else. Also (might be misunderstanding you) if you say I shouldn’t get to keep all the shards from an instance run because I had 4 other people with me, IMO, is crap. I can’t help it that due to the nature of my profession I have to rely on picking up green and blue gear. As I said before if I had Enchanting maxed I could care less whether or not I keep the shard. But if I’m not maxed, giving away shards makes leveling enchanting big $$$ since now those two or three shards I would have used to level are going to someone else to either sell or get an enchant I can’t do yet. Which means I now have to go to the AH and buy back those same shards I just gave away. This is the main reason my enchanting has leveled so slowly, the only mats I ever get are from crafted items I make leveling tailoring or if I buy mats on the AH.
@Isa
Based purely on probability I would think my chances of getting the same number of shards would take much longer. In a group that is letting you grab stuff to DE and roll at the end I don’t think it would matter, but if you get a group where people are rolling on everything and then expect to get to roll for shards at the end (I’ve had it happen) it will decrease what you get by quite a bit. The example of people rolling on everything though is not that common but it drives me nuts when it does.
While I understand what people are saying, I don’t think it is fair for the group to automatically assume they will roll on shards a the end. I’ve started ignoring the questions for healers so I can keep my shards I get. I don’t mind doing it for guild runs since it goes to the bank for everyone but in PuG I’m going to start telling them to greed everything since I need the mats. If they want shards they should be an enchanter. Otherwise they can buy mats off the AH like I’ve had to do before to get my enchanting back to a level that lets me DE the gear I pick up.
/rant off
The thing that would solve this issue is if Blizzard would find a better way than for Enchanters to have to use shards to purchase more enchants.
@ Priestgiblet
Wow, people do that? Roll greed on blues and then expect to also get the stuff you’ve managed to win? I’ve never encountered that, and I do have an enchanter toon (although I don’t play her much). That’s completely absurd, and you are fully within your rights to tell anyone who expects that to go to hell. I certainly wouldn’t worry about offending anyone that ridiculous.
@Priestgiblet
You totally misunderstood.
I said, “The fact is that when you make it clear you are a DE’er, everyone assumes you are offering to DE for the run.”
Did I say anywhere in there that it was the correct assumption to make? Or did I just state the assumption most make?
You obviously looked over my other statement where I believe enchanters should be able to keep at the very least one shard even if they are on DE duty. Or where I said that if you want to DE them, just greed on everything and DE them when the group is disbanded. But if a group asks you to DE FOR THEM and makes an agreement that they will pass if you DE, then you are expected to give up the shards.
And I’m sorry, but nobody made you be an enchanter so if you can’t get materials any other way then that is your problem. You knew it when you took up the profession. I don’t need 4 people to help me get herbs. Your view would be like asking people to give me herbs so I can level my alchemy. They aren’t going to do it and I’m not brazen enough to ask.
They need to add some kind of a BoP shard that procs when an enchanter DE’s something.
Its your option to not say your a de, just greed along with everybody else.
Personally I have had the group pass on shards or just roll the abyss crystal enough times thats its worth my while.
There are no nodes to tap for mats. Drops are all we have, and everyone is equally entitled to them.
Quest/drop items generally don’t get sold, so it could be argued that enchanters will earn less gold than non-enchanters in the long run. Sure maybe the enchanter would by their mats from the AH, but other professions can grab their mats “in the wild” without /random.
I hate it when enchanters need against people that will equip on the basis of need to level enchanting.
I hate it when (this was my experience from TBC) I would win a shard 1 in 3 weeks. Meanwhile people were complaining about me not having enchanting skills…
I think, assuming you could agree to it of course, and amended roll for enchanters. Everyone does /random 1-100. Enchanters do /random 20-100. Still means others get the chance, but that an enchanter has a greater likelihood of funding their leveling.
This arguement to me only really applies to BOP items that noone can use.
If I am in a run with a person who can disenchant that wants to greed items for themselves to de then I am fine with that but I have the same option to roll greed on items because we all need money. If there is more than one miner in the group then we roll or take turns for nodes same thing for enchanters if you want the stuff I am fine with that but the group as a whole worked to get the loot and the whole group should have the option for the loot.
In the case of the boss dropped BOP items it is very nice to have someone who is willing to de the items no one can use so that the group gets something useful out of a useless drop but I am sorry I am not going to give up all the drops in an instance so you can level your profession. None of the other professions takes anything away from you for me to do. You can’t mine so you can’t benefit from the node I get, its a totally different situation. You are not giving up something for me to have it.
This game is old enough that everyone who wants an enchanter has one so I don’t need you to de stuff for me its just a convienence.
I consider myself a “good” person ingame. Meaning I don^t tend to do evil things. But I’ve already decided what I’ll be doing once my DE gets to 80 and starts doing heroics:
Greed Roll on every Blue, and Need Roll on Epics if noone else needed. If anyone complains, I will pretend to have misrolled. If they still do, tough luck. I’ve leveled up my DE completely without Instances, and make enough money with the profession (The Auction House is your best friend!). But I’m just going to be greedy in this particular aspect. It’s not like there are often enchanters in the HC groups I do, so it’s not like everyone is going in there expecting shards. There’s no other reasonable way I know for getting Abyss Crystals for myself either.