There was some heated discussion on a recent post of mine, about the growing trend of enchanters dissatisfaction at the assumption we will DE, and the ‘fairness’ of us getting/not getting benefit from our efforts. I continue to DE in pug runs but I thought I would share 2 stories from the weekend from an enchanters POV
Case 1
I ‘disciplined’ someone yesterday in a Pug Oculus run. On the 1st boss I advised them all that I was an enchanter and I could DE. They were all happy, all was good. I got the item, I de’d the item.
A rogue on boss 3 rolled on an item he should not have, under the assumption that we were all greeding. I pointed out that I had said on boss 1 that I was an enchanter, and had DE’d the item, and that everyone else had been passing on items they didn’t need. He apologised, and we went on, and he didn’t missroll again.
When the run was over, there were only 2 shards , all the other items had been needed
So I made a call. 2 people who got loot passed, so 3 people including the rogue wanted a shard. I told the rogue that he wasn’t getting one, I explained why and that it would be unfair for the 2 people left ( including me) not to benefit from the run, when his mistake had cost the group a shard.
If there had been 3 shards I would have given him 1, but I made the call right or wrong, as a person in possesion of the shards doing what I thought was fair for the benfit of the group. ( and me.. )
Case 2
3 people from my guild, 2 pug members in a Heroic VH. We were only doing it for badges, and a chance of a drop for one of the guildys. When the 1st boss died, I said I was an enchanter, so did one of the pugs. I let the pug do the DEing. He waited until the end of the run to DE all the items ( When he didn’t de after boss 1 I checked his armory to make sure he was actually an enchanter) (<3 my duel screens) at the end of the run there were 3 shards and one Abyss crystal. We rolled, the enchanter got the lowest roll, and he said something along the lines of “Everyone got something except me” I told him to keep my shard. I thought that was fair considering he had done the deing, and it had been a good run. It was going to be one of those poor runs for an enchanter. Was I being generous, no, I wanted that shard – I still have receipes I won’t personally use to buy. I let him have it out of sympathy for his plight, and maybe restore some hope in the rule of universal fairness.
What was the point of these examples. In both cases I made a very human decision about the distribution of the results of a Disenchant, a simple /roll in both cases in my opinion would not have been fair – so I chose to intervene. I believe that my actions in both instances were for the good of all, what I feel almost bad about is that even if I was right, or wrong it was me who made that decision, I forced my moralities onto other people, and that’s why i feel almost ickky. It may not be as comparable as the raid leader that ninja’s the rare mount, but I made judgements on the results of a persons ‘labour’ if you will. The circumstances of both these examples could not be outlined by loot rules.
I’m not sure if the Rogue who lost out on a shard, or the other enchanter who gained one, is having anywhere near the sort of internal struggle I am – over a crystal pixel, but I think for me at least, as overtly ‘deep’ and frivolous as the issue is, its a splash in the face as to however minor, your decisions effect how others see and play the game. You will influence by your own actions what they walk away from that computer with. Be it a sense of unfairness, injustice, or a feeling of accomplishment.
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I completely see the point.
From the enchanter’s point of view it’s actually in your interest not to admit being an enchanter. Just greed roll every unwanted item and you still get your 20% which you can quietly shard after the run.
Disenchanting for groups is hard work for no personal benefit.
On the other hand I’ve seen enchanters who do well out of groups by being immoral. The simplest version of this is not sending shards to people who leave the group for some reason. 5 shards, one guy logs right after the last boss dies usually means 1 each for the other 3 plus 2 for the enchanter. This I’m ok with, I think there is some responsibility to claim your shard rather than have it posted to you or whatever.
But the most venal was someone I knew quite well who never mnetioned the shards at the end. Amount of runs I did with him and realised 3 days later he’d yet again walked off with all the shards. If someone mentioned he’d hand them out but he made a point of never mentioning them himself and he must have got away with them all about 50% of runs. (and he was a well-geared and quick Pally tank farming heroics at 70 about a year ago, so that’s a lot of runs). He certainly was making at least 4 figures from auctioning them.
Probably the answer is just to do it for people you like or when politely requested.
You raise another point, as to the chasing down of the players who were entitled to a share of the spoils, making the job of a DE more then just a service provider we need to do customer care follow ups too or risk being called ninjas. I’ve only been hoodwinked by those sorts of enchanters a couple of times, the ones who forget. Trust me you don’t forget, and If they all leave before you can distribute a quick scroll up on the loot rolls/pass on the item will remind you who you just partied with.
You made the decision anyone who realized that it truly is just a game would. The idea of shards, to me anyways, has always been that it’s sort of a runner up prize to anyone who didn’t get loot they could need. The rogue didn’t get his because he already got some loot and you also realized that the person who was DEin might deserve a little extra because he did the work. I know I always hated when there were four items, I DEed them all and then lost on the final row. Kudos to you.
Any time we group, we “force” our morality onto someone else. I don’t see this as forcing though. If they don’t like the rules, they can opt out at the beginning. The rule may not have been made about opting out if you won a roll, but it’s not a bad rule.
It sounds more like you don’t enjoy making the hard decisions that might make you unpopular with some. I really wouldn’t worry about it. You have to think out of 5 people you ran with, how many would see your decision as unfair? If it is more than 1, then I might worry about it, but it seems that your morals were not that far off from the majority of that group.
You’re right, I am not comfortable in a ‘fun’ setting making a decision which could effect someone elses fun, I try and be impartial but there will always be someone who feels that they didn’t get what they were intitaled to, and nor do I feel I should need to police peoples fun either, possibly because I worry I won’t have the support. In trying to be just and fair I’m exposing myself. I don’t want to be a flame post on realm forums 😛 because that is what happens..
The first character I got to 70 and raided with in TBC was an enchanter, so I know your pain. But let’s not kid ourselves, there are some logistics to DEing, but I wouldn’t call it “Hard Work.”
Since I play another character now, I usually run PUG DEing one way. First shard(s) goes to the Enchanter(s), the remaining shards are rolled on by everyone else. That way, an enchanter is pretty much guaranteed a shard. If no one else in the group agrees with that, I roll on the shards and give mine to an enchanter if they didn’t get one. You make a lot more friends with enchanters that way.
Honestly, there are too many sources of cash in the game right now to be uptight about a shard. However, I suppose if one of the enchanters were to say they were getting the shards first, everyone in the group would QQ.
When I mentioned being uptight about the shard, I mean for non-enchanters. Enchanters are totally justified at being pissed off for not getting a shard.
I’m hoping if anything that enchanters are being taken a little more seriously. In a half guild/half pug run I was asked did I mind deing – I didn’t and got 2 shards out of the run by circumstances. I don’t currently keep 1 shard, its certainly something I might consider doing, if they agree. However I think If I did it would call into question the fairness on rolling on the Abyss as well, and they it gets tricky if someone wins a roll.
A realm forum post recently also talked about the accepted DEing culture on some realms, and how they assume there is no enchanter and all greed on everything. What has been clear from everyones feedback that I think its important for me to make it clear at the begginning of the run lay down the rules, before you go into the instance. I’m going to Macro it.. just need to figure out what would be the most fair.