I might upset a friend if he reads this because its my take on his story, but I want to comment on it.
He became ‘sponsered’ by a guild before he had even hit 80, leveled elemental and -they paid for his duel spec and gave him mats for enchants so he could learn to heal. Cakewalked through Naxx Runs, and was taken to Ulduar 25 man almost from day one – being given tier gear because they needed the healers that bad.
While I was wiping, and suffering through progression and competing with people who had also wiped and suffered in my own raids for gear, he was being handed shiny epics for free.
Was I jealous ? No. I believe that the journey helps make the character, and has a lot to do with my learning to play. It would also be contrary to my own personal motivations, I want to be able to work for something. I don’t like the price tags that come with free things.
So what happened? They recuited a better healer and they no longer wanted him on raid, and he, so used to the next upgrade being handed to him couldn’t justify chanting his gear even with the 2nd best Enchants, or working on his Hodir rep, or pugging any raid to improve his skills/ get some badges for additional gear. He logged off with no interest in the game and didn’t try and develop any further.
I am maybe being a little harsh to my friend. Would any sane person say no to free lootz/Gold/Enchants? What’s 1k gold to a guild when you need healers, and that no one else will be missing out on gear when you don’t have the healers to give it to.
Had that guild not done what they did for my friend, the chances of him seeing Ulduar any time would have been slim. New 80, unfamiliar talent tree, and learning to heal – no chance.
My friends guild did what it needed to do to survive, and a carried healer is still doing some healing . It only prolonged their existence by a few weeks, as the guild has now disbanded.
I am reminded by my friends story because we find ourselves in similar position, and like all the social theorists that like looking at the past for ways to understand the present. Their method, free loot to an undergeared/underskilled player did not help them keep their guild.
My guild are going to be trying to gear up some of our newer recruits taken for skill over current gear level ( within reason) , as fast as possible so we get that decent shot at hardmodes. All the gold and shards in the guild bank are worth salt if we can’t raid like we want to. The difference is, I hope between my friends guild , and our approach is that the players have demonstrated their class understanding, and while they are getting loot, and killing bosses they haven’t seen before I hope that we are also building up a two way loyalty, and that they don’t expect constant handouts, ( they are still paying for their enchants) and when it comes time to let them off their leashes that they will stay , and grow with us.
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Pugnacious Priest's Warcraft Blog 
First!
@Rawr – Didn’t realise it was a race… 😛
Heya
Been randomly reading your blog, but have found your last few posts especially good reading. Perhaps cause they are honest about how a good guild can fail, even with the best of intentions and great people in it.
Your post reminds me of a discussion we had in our own guild. After many wipes on Yogg I suggested to give a 1k gold bonus to all players in the raid if we downed him that night, as to me 25k gold off the gbank sounds like a bargain for a long sought after kill.
Yet, my fellow officers disagreed for the most part. Talking about how we shouldnt need to give money for kills etc.
My simple point was that if gold could get us what we wanted (perhaps the gold incentive would give us that extra focus to tip the balance) then its worth every copper. Hell, I would even call it a bargain! 🙂
In such, I think gbanks offering to help out players who are willing to take a leap of faith for the guild is worth trying. It might not be the best solution in the long run, but if gold can solve anything for the guild its worth trying. After all, gold is alot easier to come by then good raiders or decent bosskills.
I also don’t believe that carrying through a fresh lvl 80 to help heal is going to help a guild in the long run. It breeds impatience (so clearly shown by your friend and his unwillingness to pay for enchants), not gratitude.
We had a trial guild member who:
– didn’t think they should have to wait the full trial period
– complained loudly when a decision was made they disagree with
– disappeared for weeks with no word to officers and no apology
– healed, but couldn’t keep their target/assignment alive
I mentioned it to a friend of mine outside the guild and they told me they had been loot-trained by their previous guild. I don’t think they did him any favours.
BTW I think 1k gold to each player as a reward is a good incentive. Nobody expects it, but it shows how much the officers value player dedication. Money talks.
@Kristine – Cheers for your comment. Gold could be a useful motivation, the guild already covers stuff like repairs and flasks for raiders, but that extra bonus would be nice – but I wonder if it would motivate the right people? The ones that are the most dedicated seem to be set for gold anyway, I hope that our raiding doesn’t come to that – It sort of goes against the principles of raiding motivations but in effect the providing of consumables/repairs is almost like paying raiders a salary as well, as they don’t need to donate back any gold from boss kill loot. I’ll suggest it to an officer though to see if they could come up with a bonus system of sorts perhaps.
When you start using words such as “Hard work”, “freebies”, “Price tag”, “free”, “sufferd on raids for gear”, you make it sound like RL work.
This is a game. most poeple already have a RL jobs and don’t need another one after hours.
It is, in my opinion, this type of mentality that creates elitism, and contributes to making the game “a grind”.
Ease up on your friend. He was having fun. Remember that this is what it is all about. Having fun. That’s why most people play. When it stopped being fun and it became” a grind” he left.
I am sorry you couldn’t understand that. I am sorry you felt it so….weird… that you wanted to do a post about it. I am sorry that you felt a guild being nice to him was ” a hand out”.
Remember, its just a game
Horation
@Horatio – Your right raiding is often like having a 2nd job, however it is something I do enjoy doing – Elitist theory is interpretable, there isn’t a clear defined defition of what is Elitest, but alas the guild was not being nice to him when they no longer needed him, because it suited them not to be if being nice is handing people free loot.
@Horatio that attitude really really frustrates me. I play this game to have fun, I work full time, I am not elitist.
People who expect everything for nothing are having fun at 24 other peoples expense… seriously.
Take a soccer or basketball team where one player just stands around and doesn’t defend, or gets tired or bored and looks away at that crucial moment. Because of this player the team keeps losing matches over and over again. I bet you wouldn’t be impressed and I bet you would enjoy the game less as a result. You would certainly resent that lazy person and if possible find a replacement or bench them wherever possible.
Learning how to play, enchanting your gear, paying for gems, showing up when you say you are going to…. when it comes to raiding this is what every raider must do to show they are a team player who is committed to ensuring that the group is having a great time which means:
1. more bosses are downed & more loot is distributed
2. people are having so much fun that they keep showing up doing a good job!
People that don’t want to do that, fine…. just don’t expect to be in a raiding team, suffer through weekend PUGs whatever I don’t care just don’t call those of us who do make the effort elitist and make out that this behaviour is acceptable.
I’ll end this mini rant with – there are 1000s of games out there that don’t involve other people, which can you pause, save whatever for RL. Unfortunately WoW isn’t one of them….
While I appreciate the sentiment Horation, I am not sure I toally agree.
Plenty of people enjoy the feeling of satisfaction from conquering difficult challenges. I mean why do a 1000 piece jigsaw puzzle instead of a 10 piece? Why build a domino chain that stretches for 20 metres instead of just 2 dominos? Why climb Everest instead of the climbing wall at the gym? Its much the same really with raiding, a good deal of the satisfaction from raiding (in my mind) is beating difficult challenges – which often takes time and dedication.
I don’t have the slightest problem who think of WoW much like a dvd, hit play and if you stick around you see the end. Personally though, even if it is ultimately completely irrelevant, I get a buzz out of beating things that challenge me.
I suspect that is part of the broader problem PP, not enough people who want to beat the challenges because they are there to be beaten. At this point Ulduar hard modes don’t motivate the mercenary minded (because the loot is not as good as ToC), you’ve got to WANT it.
Silk
Just to clarify: I am not advocating gold as good incentive to get people to raid. However, I am trying to think outside the box when it comes to breaking a streak of wipes.
I guess we have all been there: Wiping at the same boss for week after week with no real progress to show for, even having to face that some nights we end up performing worse at the end then when we started.
Some times whats needed to get a kill is a shift in mentality, not better gear (though it helps) or hours of pouring over EJ (especially since its just as full of nabs as anywhere else these days). Just a change of gear, a fresh view – something to stop the same mistakes from happening over and over again.
We tried the “gbank will give everyone 1k gold each if you get it together kill Yogg tonight”. It didnt give us a kill, but it did grant us some pretty good tries. Everyone seemed a bit more on edge, a bit sharper and the night ended on with a up beat tone. Dont think it will work every time, but I might give it a go at another date if I think it will bring around a buzz of “lets do this now!” rather then a “whats so hard with moving out of the fire?!?!?!”.
I have had success with getting the raid really drunk, and by that – just getting them to relax and have fun, instead of getting uptight and nervous. Have noticed that when progress is about to happen (like the first time a boss goes below 30%)the adrenaline gets going and if too many nerves are present, it tends to fall to pieces. Some alcohol (or other mind altering substances of choice) is then a way of keeping is chilled and silly.
Something I have been hoping to try in the future is taking a leaf from the more “pro” guilds: Recording sessions. Wonder what people would say if they got to see themselves in a wiperaid where they could pause and rewind…
A little sidetracked here, sorry about that. Perhaps a bit more related to the Gamers or Raiders thread – but I guess its all really about what you need to do to keep a good guild going 🙂
The guild’s fate was inevitable. I don’t know why they had no healer, but if they were so desperate to have to pay for a bad healer they were already down.
They should have disbanded a month earlier, that way the other people could find their own fun instead of sucking one more month in a dead guild with carried useless healer.
“The guild’s fate was inevitable. I don’t know why they had no healer, but if they were so desperate to have to pay for a bad healer they were already down.”
But having a healer pay to join a guild is fine?
Which then means that using gold to compensate on an individual basis is applaudable, but using gold to compensate for a collective reason is defeat?
Sorry Gevlon, you cant have the cake and eat it.
@Gevlon – Somethings are worth fighting for. We had 37 raiders on tonight, with enough of the classes for a 10 man and a 25 to be going at once – maybe these figures will settled down, but what ever we have done since the meeting, has at least given the people new spirit!