Dispels /Cleanses/decurses prevent damage and should be measured.

Measuring the performance of a Disc Priest was a little difficult on damage metres that didn’t take into consideration the preventative damage of their shields –  where damage was absorbed instead of healed.  So on those damage metres,  like recount the performance of a disc priest will always on the surface seem like they were lazy healing.  Disc priests were getting kicked from groups and fights because their raw heals didn’t measure up to most peoples understanding of how the class worked.

Untill you look at how many shields are cast & damage absorbed.

I was thinking that on that premise,  because a shield isn’t a heal.  It stops damage being done,  that a dispel, or a cleanse also stops damage being done, and perhaps could be counted as a performance measurement and given a figure as well.

By dispelling *this* magic affect 4k damage was prevented. Not all debuffs that are removable are damage dealing.  But It would be a start.

A magic affect, a poison, curse or a disease that can be cleansed/dispelled if had been let run its course would may have caused damage that needed to be healed or absorbed,  so then becomes measurable by our performance measurement standards  – but stopping the damage from happening all together only gets lumped in as a figure in a such and such did *this* many dispels.

I ‘outgeared’ an alt shadow priest ( a well geared alt.)  on a run once in one of my guilds and we were doing TOC  and he beat me on damage.  I got a whisper from the GM wanting to know why an Alt beat me, and that I needed to pick up my game.

“He didn’t even touch the adds and wasn’t dispelling.” I argued back in my defense.

It was all about damage. The whole picture of the raid wasn’t taken into consideration   It was disappointing to see my raw figures  of damage done as the only measurement of having done my job – dispels, killing adds none of that mattered. Even though it was clear that he had done none of that as evidenced by the logs – he ‘beat’ me on damage and I was the scrub.

If dispels/cleanses/decurses were measured with numbers of damage prevented then there is more incentive for more people to remove them.

In guild or pugs,   a damage meter is linked  and healing/damage done are flashed around as measurements of performance,  and we all nod at who came first. But that top dps/heals may have only gotten that high because they didn’t do something that someone else did.

12 Responses to “Dispels /Cleanses/decurses prevent damage and should be measured.”

  1. 1 Klepsacovic March 28, 2010 at 3:09 pm

    I know there are mods to track interrupts; but those don’t track stuns, so rogues lose a bit. I think there are dispel-tracking mods.

    I noticed this myself when my priest was healing toc5. I could dispel the SW:P right away. Or I could let it tick, dispel, and then get the full healing out of my renew. Which looks better on the meters? Just to make it worse, if we’d be tracking damage taken and that was on a DPS, it would make the tank look bad that DPS took so much damage, but it wasn’t anyone’s fault but my own.

    • 2 Pugnacious Priest March 28, 2010 at 9:37 pm

      When healing on my priest and if they are taking / have taken damage and have a debuff I will also heal them first – not because if meters but because it could be anything doing the damage and the renew will keep ticking .

  2. 3 Dan March 28, 2010 at 4:34 pm

    At least World of Logs tracks our absorbs at heals now, it’s one step in the right direction 🙂 It also tracks number of dispels, while not quantifying them with how much damage they prevented – it at leasts shows who is pulling their weight on the dispelling!

  3. 4 Ngita March 28, 2010 at 10:55 pm

    Recount shows dispells right along with Damage and healing. Just link it right back in their face. Jarraxus – healing the person with debuff does not show healing meters. I cant count how many pug raids I have healed where its blatantly obvious nobody but me is healing it. If it on the far aide of the raid and explodes all I can do is sigh.

    We where playing with different combos of alt healers for our lich king kill as we tend to be heavy on resto shaman and pallies. I said it in raid and tried to make it nice and clear for whoever listened. When the alt Disc priest is their as compared to the alt holy priet or druid. The average hps is 3k less across the raid. Since nobody is dieing that means the bubbles are absorbing 3k hps on top of the 2.5k healing from the disc. priest.

  4. 5 Rivv March 29, 2010 at 4:24 am

    This is a common misconception within dps meters, Ive been concerned with my guilds dps as of late because of the great differences between the Top 2 and 3-5th. Whilst dispells etc do drop the damage done there can be times when it isnt proportionate to what I expect. I also understnd that 1 of the 2 is a rouge which when it comes to raid mechanics ie. Picking up adds etc is a very easy class to play, but the second is a hunter who takes his job very seriously.

    I recently showed that this hunter was 100-150k higher than the person in 3rd position, @5kdps this works out to be around 20-30secs of standing around on a 5minute fight.

    After pouring through logs and spreadsheets and class guides of my other guildies I came to the conclusion that there was quite a disparity in actual and expected DMG output.

    After posting a rather terse forum message I noticed 1 thing in particular – The people who actually care have made siginificant improvements to the point where the gap has shrunk considerably and that makes me happy for a change.

    So I guess unless its something terrible like a hunter not dps’ing saurfang adds or frost orbs on chillivon, then it doesnt hurt to see what they are doin better than you, I know thats how I got better anyway.

    BTW enough Server eestarts already blizz!!!

  5. 6 Cassandri March 29, 2010 at 4:46 am

    I agree with Ngita. Especially on fight where dispelling is critical it’s important for the raid leader to link Dispels *instead* of Damage Done.

    For example when we were wiping like hell on Yogg after every attempt only the Dispels would be posted. If it comes from the raid leader than it’s clear that the priority is dispels>damage.

    Perhaps you just need to enlighten your GM about how important dispels are for certain fights. Sounds like he/she just wasn’t thinking about it.

  6. 7 wojtek March 29, 2010 at 7:10 am

    It’s irritating and I think it’s pointless to worry about it, if someone doesn’t get that, he should just learn the game.

  7. 8 Nyatha March 30, 2010 at 4:33 pm

    I roll Disc Priest – and this has been a frustrating issue for me in PuG’s. To the point that I don’t even bother anymore. And since my raiding guild disbanded, I’ve just left raiding behind, and decided that I will just do the instances later when we are 85 or 90, because it’s so frustrating.

    I am never top of the hps meters. But you are right – how many times did I top your behind off, then bubble you? How many times did I get an add off you and drop it on the tank? How many times did I dispel a debuff, and save you from 5-8k damage? But no – because its not raw hps, then I’m no good.

    I think Disc priests are some of the baddest healers out there. I like what Ngita said about not taking into account the bubbles. A lot of boss fights in heroics / raids I’ve got bubbles up on people all the time, how much damage is that reducing?

    Also, don’t forget divine aegis. That is like a freaking God Send. As Disc priests we can bubble ourselves, run into a boss fight close up and pop two Holy Nova’s – and almost everyone had got DA up, and has incoming damage reduced (AoE or not) by up to 20-30%. That also doesn’t get counted.

    I also really like what you said about how you were downing adds, moving mobs and dropping them off etc. When we look at raiding, you can’t look at damage/hps meters and say thats all that matters. Sure standard pugs 5kgs, 5k dps blah blah blah (which I think is rubbish) – but if you are seriously looking at raiding, not all boss fights have timers. It’s about knowing where to be, when to be, who to help, looking around you, not just focusing on your rotation, keeping tabs on your health, moving adds, changing targets if required. Its about working as a group – and sure you may pull 6k dps, but the questioin is, are you really doing all you can do in your rotation to help the raid? It’s not all about rotations, its about maximizing the ability of your class abilities, gear potential, and individual skill in any given raid encounter.

    But we are all like wolves – we want to down the boss, throw a piece of meat inbetween us and watch us fight to the death. I’ve been in a few raiding guilds where no one is comfortable and no one is enjoying themseleves – just not for me anymore.

    Good post.

  8. 9 gnomeaggedon March 30, 2010 at 8:03 pm

    No better place to put this right now, so…

    I totally ninja’s a ride in my favorite priest’s bike last night!

    Glad you said hi. My party frames are so small I can barely read the names.

    Not just one BG, but two!

    All the previous losses were washed away purely because I finally got to live… err die by your side!

    • 10 Pugnacious Priest March 30, 2010 at 10:23 pm

      I only noticed because I wanted to make sure the mage who dropped the table had my priests buffs…. and went I know that name! I think we won the Isle? Of maybe it was one after – but that AB was bad! Good to see you too! and I didn’t kick you out of the bike!

      • 11 gnomeaggedon March 30, 2010 at 11:32 pm

        Yeah we got the Isle… although for a while there it didn’t look like we had the O.

        I had fallen back to plan B. Whittle them down in our bosses room.

        I was having fun for a while slow falling onto their demolishers and taking them out up close and personal.

  1. 1 Grid+Clique FTW – Pain Suppression Trackback on April 14, 2010 at 11:21 am
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