I put my foot in when we were talking about Achievements in our premade BG the other day ( when we used to be able to queue with more than five. Fooey ><) They were asking how close we were to Master of WSG, and I had two achievements left, Frenzied Defender – get 5 flag returns and Quick Cap the speed cap one. Both were relatively easy to obtain if I asked other people in BG to make a small concession for me.
Eg 5 cap – let me return 5 flags – so no one else clicks on it.
Speed cap – pick up both boots ( we communicate when they are both up, and make sure no one from our team picks one up) use a speed pot in a clear field, and your home free.
I made the statement that it didn’t matter, and that I don’t like achievements because I don’t feel like I have actually achieved anything when I am asking other people to make concessions. Of course I was talking to a collection of people who did care about achievements, and I felt like I had made a serious social gaffe and was going to need to server transfer again.
I don’t want to rehash the Achievement topic to great lengths, but if anything my almost callous statement highlighted that we all play Wow for very different reasons and that my opinion of achievements seems to increasingly part of the minority.
I understood the need for achievements like hardmodes in Ulduar as being a real measurement of progression. I understand the accomplishment of Achievements that show true skill and co-ordination, and I find those worthy of pursuit.
Yes there have been achievements which I have chased. My Journey to Justicar, and I wanted an Icecrown drake as much as the rest of them. Even now my desire for “Of the Alliance” by getting 100k honor kills. To say ” I have killed One hundred thousand players” ( Beats standing on the river bank waiting for the bodies of your enemy to float by) .
I recently completed all the silly loving the pests, the explorations, and killing bugs achievements. I just keep running into people who like this achievement point thing, it’s important to the people I play with, and thus I feel I ought to think it’s somewhat important too.
I’m # 10 in my current guild for Achievement points, with just over 7200 points – like Gah.. and that is without even trying – it says I have done things. Been places.
I don’t know what my motivations for playing wow are. Maybe some of it is that chemical reaction that gaming is supposed to give much like a drug on our brain chemistry, maybe it’s the sociableness, maybe it’s fodder for another love of mine writing or communicating. Maybe it’s somewhere to go. Something to do, but I don’t want to be a Queen of nothing in particular. If I chase or accomplish something that matters. I want it to matter.
See here I am thinking that other people take Achievement points too seriously – I watch them eat and devour them one after the other, with little regard or passion in the accomplishment, but maybe I am the odd one because I want them all to mean something. I want to be passionate about everything I consider to be an accomplishment.
Maybe it’s not the people Achievement point chasing people that have the issue but it is I who has the issue, by trying to find meaning and justification in every 10 points when I should not.
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Maybe they should make many of the non combat-earned achievements or skills even (cooking, fishing) bind on account. I.e. I don’t have to do pest control more than once on a toon. All my achievement points between toons would be equal and my cooking and fishing skills, except perhaps raid, bg, and other achievements. Goodness knows I don’t want to level fishing to 450 again.
I don’t know.. I’m actually with you on this very much. and I don’t think it’s wrong to want something called ‘achievement’ to actually have a meaning, no. i can be a little too elitist at times when i measure every success by how hard or big the related obstacles were, I am just that kind of person: if it’s too easy, if it’s too fast, if too many achieve the same thing, I disregard my own accomplishments.
but i don’t think this is the case with most wow achis: I logged on tonight and got an achi for err…logging on. come on lol, way to kill the point.
I have a guildmate or two that go absolutely nuts on achis and i love pulling their legs for it (apparently getting burned by Deathwing is every achi-freak’s wet dream atm) – all in good humor of course (“Fire! Fire! here in westfall…oh no wait”).
But i do in general have a “/roll eye” ready for extreme achi hunters – especially if they’re imposing their ‘needs’ on everyone else and ruin your instance run or BG etc. etc.
what floats your boat of course, but keep it on your side. personally, achis are nothing but a timesink to me – some are fun sure, but in the end it’s nothing i care for.
I’m with you. It doesn’t bother me that other people are mad keen on achievements (although Blizzard have gone out of their way to make sure that they’re totally optional and mostly meaningless) but I’m astounded at how many people really seem to want to chase every crappy achievement available … for no reason. When I say congrats to the guy in my guild who got the insane title, what I really mean is ‘I think you’re an idiot for doing that’.
“I’m astounded at how many people really seem to want to chase every crappy achievement available… for no reason.”
True.
“When I say congrats to the guy in my guild who got the insane title, what I really mean is ‘I think you’re an idiot for doing that’.”
True.
“… my opinion of achievements seems to increasingly part of the minority.”
Of people who play WoW.
And…
“Maybe it’s not the people Achievement point chasing people that have the issue but it is I who has the issue, by trying to find meaning and justification in every 10 points when I should not.”
Or maybe your subconscious is trying to tell you something.
Those who are chasing without consideration are simply morons.
You are also doing something moronic, but you at least question it and seek meaning. The question is: will you stop when you find none?
I think people only pay attention to things relative to them. If someone did not care the least bit about PvE, then the likes of “Juggernaut” or “Premonition” would have no value to them. That’s perfectly fine, only people who care about PvE progression will know those names — and there are thousands of us, we have our own communities. But progression ain’t everything, some people don’t even care to try their best, they just want to have fun and play their Enhancement-specced shaman as a main-healer. Everyone has different values, and all of our values are relative and our perceptions are different.
For example, in my guild, my guildmaster has 8,400 Achievement points, and he’s a lowly 22 overall in the guild. Achievement points are a big deal in my guild.
A guild with 35-40 people, mind you.
That said, you have Justicar, maybe your friends wanted “Battlemaster”. I don’t really see a fundamental difference between “Justicar” and “Battlemaster”.
Oh, and for what it’s worth, before I post a huge unnecessary post trying to explain another point-of-view, I have both “Justicar” and “Battlemaster”, as well as “Field Marshal”.
For me this extends to mounts and vanity pets.
If it doesn’t help down bosses, I just can’t bring myself to care.
I can respect the effort that goes into pursuing this stuff, and I understand on an intellectual level that people enjoy expending that effort. But I’ve no freakin idea WHY. I’ve even tried doing achieves and collecting some pets, in case the enjoyment of it would kinda ARRIVE once I’d got going.
But naw.It’s still a mystery.
Anyone for a H run?
The explorer one was a big time sink. Riding to places in far off lands where I somehow managed to skip one little corner. The achievement thing is getting out of hand. Even in Chuzzle on my iphone I can get achievements, but this obligation to want them them is wearing on me hence explorer, even killing turkeys and laying feasts in bg’s they are easily gotten, or hey I can just log in and get one.
So, did they let you get Master of WSG??? You left us hanging! 🙂
no, they would have been quite happy to have helped, and who knows it still might be possible in the future.
The only achievements I seek are the ones where I get something cool, perhaps a title (i.e. Argent Crusder), or a mount.
I may be a whore, but I’m no slut. I want something in return for my hard work
but sometimes S’s are dupped into thinking there is still a ‘ring’ at the end of it and are disappointed when its not. Bit like that elemental invasion.
I remember something my friend once told me while we were playing Diablo II. Or rather, when Diablo II was hot, and we were both addicted. He quit playing one day however, and I followed suit because I thought it consumed too much of my time.
He said “all we’re doing is just getting 1’s and 0’s, because in the end our phat loots were really just 1’s and 0’s somewhere on some computer”.
No matter what we do, that’s all these games really are in the physical sense. Got a new “Justicar” title? congrats, a 0 flipped to a 1 somewhere on a Blizzard server.
Is there any real meaning to this? no, not really. Most of us play games and WoW specifically for the social and psychological aspects of the game.
We player-vs-player in Warsong because it’s socially fun to be with 4-buddies and doing something — an activity, Warsong is just an ends to a mean for this.
But then there is also the psychological thrill of winning and competition. We are humans, humans are driven by competition. It’s what motivates us and it’s what drives us.
Be it primal competition for mates to find the best mother/father to procreate or competition to be #1 in class or to win a good-paying job.
This is the pleasure we derive from doing something like Warsong, it’s socially fun and psychologically thrilling and fun.
However, our bodies work against us. In a combination of ways, similar to how our body builds tolerance against drugs and we want more and more. Doing something over and over is tedious and repetitive. Repetition creates tedium and tedium creates boredom.
Blizzard knows this. Enter Achievements. Look, you might think it’s dumb to get Master of Warsong Gulch, but it’s something different. It’s an ends to a mean. It’s a new goal. It’s the goal we seek. And Blizzard is giving us a little bit of hand-holding by first giving us a clear-cut, achievable goal AND giving us this flashy little “cheese-mint” to show off or goal.
This is something different. Some achievements are vastly different, some you get by happenstance. But it’s something. It’s something to do. It’s a goal. It’s an accomplishment.
Achievements fulfill a lot of human desires. It’s competitive. It’s social. It’s psychological. It’s a goal.
Also. You really should ask yourself. Are these people really your friends? I don’t mind make “concessions” for my friends. That’s half of what friendship is about. It doesn’t matter if I care about it, it matters that I care and I am willing to help them. Look, there are varying degree of friendship, I give you that. And I’ll be willing to do a lot less for an acquaintance than I would for my girlfriend.
But the way you articulate, it sounds like these people are not your “mates” or friends. You aren’t willing to do something for them, regardless of if you find pleasure in it or not, it’s something minor. (And it is, none of those achievements are hard by any means and your own admission, at worse one of those would’ve taken what, 2-3 extra minutes?).
Without sounding too critical. Maybe this is because you’ve been burnt in the past, but how can you find a home if you aren’t willing to make a home? Friends help friends. Generosity, kindness, empathy, those are signs of true friendship.
I really dread to go into this paragraph, because I feel it’s a bit bitter, but I do genuinely think it’s something maybe you should reflect on: Maybe the reason you do not wish for “concessions” is because you don’t value yourself or you feel as if you “burden others” when you ask for these things. That’s a sign of lacking self-confidence and self-worth. I hardly know you, but I promise if I was there and you wanted those two achievements, I would help you. And I wouldn’t question it. You’re a good person, and if you want it, it’s no burden or concession for me to take 10 minutes to help you. You are my friend, and your happiness is all that matters for such a little trade-off.
I don’t have problems with helping people with the goals they want, so it’s not about not wanting to give other people concessions. Maybe it is a self worth thing. I don’t place a high importance on some goals, so therefore do not feel I ought to ask for, or accept offered help on something even I don’t think is important, and if I don’t think it’s important how can I ask other people to make an effort.
Most people who know me would say I am confident, outgoing, opinionated, and well grounded but also very stubbon, and I do not ask for help, but I don’t think my self worth out of game is a problem. In game; it varies.
We had even been helping pugs get achievements, and it’s been ok, and the reason I was asked was because a few others in our team had been getting help for theirs, so they wanted to know what other people needed/wanted.
The Key is want. I want a glass of water. I want a glass of wine. I want to read a book. I want to respond to a comment. I cannot find the desire to want most achievements, and that’s my point. Maybe it is I that places too much importance on wanting something. I can haz achievement? because it’s there? Of course you can, and so can anyone else. It is just 10 more points. Even Justicar is losing it’s meaning because it’s losing value as people add it to their list of just another title.
But as for friendship; building friendly relationships is a ongoing process, but we seem to be getting on, and for someone who landed on a realm and didn’t know anyone, I am feeling relatively satisfied that I belong for the most, but belonging is also partially having your goals aligned. For the most. Winning seems to cover most of the requirements.
Maybe part of this train of thought is also that because I have just completed what I think is a real achievement. I have a novel. A short by normal standards that is a editing nightmare, but draft one is done, it’s also one I did on my own So that I place more value on accomplishing things in my personal life on my own because the things that matter to me are very much personal goals.
@Shiva.
Deep.