Archive for the 'Pvp' Category

The Scorpion and the Frog fable – sabotaging our own WQ success

Fables were meant to be stories with moral lessons, and you’ve probably heard of the scorpion and frog one. If not, or you need a refresher – read here

Otherwise : Spoiler alert – the Scorpion stings the frog as the frog is carrying the Scorpion across the lake and they both end up drowning

I’m still playing in Warmode. A bounty was called upon my head as I was fishing and to see a flight of horde players on dragon back descend upon me was truly frightening. In Warmode, there are also several world quests that mark all players as hostile, Horde or Alliance alike. Like Blown Through Wind: Rhuzast

Most classes can’t solo the mob yet which is a rare elite so we need each other, we need to co-operate to achieve the goal, the kill. You can create a group, which is 5 max so you have some people who have your back, but it doesn’t matter because it’s the nature of players to try and kill each other anyway. Rhuzasts platform becomes a small collection of mini fights as players land, and see a hostile enemy and start to damage regardless of faction We are all foes in this battle.

Warmode servers has always been for me a weird mix of ‘we are just going to politely ignore that we could kill each other, and get along with our quest, or what ever it is we are doing’, or it becomes an opportunist slaughter fest. I will help a Horde, or be helped by a Horde kill a big Lunker ( getting them to shore can be hard and help makes it easier ) but the moment, a Horde player tries to access a resources chest in the middle of a crowd of Alliance it’s on. If a bounty is called on the map queries for players wanting to go hunting goes out in chat.

One person on my server called out their dismay at Alliances players willingness to kill our own in chat for these Pvp World quests .

One Rhuzast kill we had all managed to separate our selves around the Proto Dragon, and seemed to come to some kind of unspoken agreement and were dotting / dpsing it down, when it just devolved. Maybe someone accidentally dotted up some one, or there was a cleave and while the Dragon is stomping around trying to eat us, we were all trying to destroy each others health bars. When I do these quests, I think about the Scorpion and the Frog, and wonder if Blizzard, or the quest designers knew that they were creating some kind of social experiment to see how players would co-operate, or sabotage their own successes to complete a goal for the sake of PVP. We are acting like the Scorpion.

The PVP World Quest Wild Arcana gives you a choice to kill players or Unstable Arcana – at 5% a pop it takes 20 Arcana to do the quest, or according to the Wowhead page, only 7 players. I spent almost 10 minutes with 3 hostile players running around in circles, dotting up slow spawning Unstable Arcana just so we didn’t try and kill each other. No words were spoken aloud, no formal agreement was made, but we just didn’t kill each other. By the stage I was done, we had been collecting orbs like no tomorrow, and were completely overpowered. When a new player entered our circle and didn’t know that unspoken social pvp rule we had all agreed to and tried to attack us, he went down quickly, and we went back to running in circles looking for spawning Unstable Arcana.

Is that the answer?, we all just agree not to participate in PVP because we want to complete the quest without dying. Will our society then punish the rule breakers by making them targets until they comply, or it will just eventually be that only the strongest players could complete the quest because the weaker ones will always be fodder and easy HK kills.

Faction identity & working together

Are you Alliance or Horde to the core?

There was some suggestions floating around Facebook, Reddit, and forums that allowing Alliance and Horde to work together more, would decrease overall toxicity between players and in the game, and that our factions just seek to divide us further and encourage hostility towards each other.

I’ve been flagged for PVP all of Shadowlands – its a nice little bonus and for the most I get left alone. There’s the odd bones of a death sitting around the steps on the Seat of the primus in Maldraxxus, where I have made my home. It’s a reminder not to go AFK at the flight master, and on occasion there will be some PVP and general chat calls all the warriors to home to defend against the enemy.

When we quest in Korthia there’s a bit more action and Horde and Alliance travel around in small packs and we have a bit of a tussle – this only often lasts as long as it takes for either one of us to finish our quests, it’s more of a you’re there and flagged so you are fair game rather then a true faction hunt and destroy.

I used to be afraid of World PVP, didn’t think I could hold my own, and didn’t want my game play and fun interrupted. Now its an acceptable dalliance,camping is never fun but if your silly enough to keep coming back to the same spot on a quest (yes me, in the hope they have moved on ) then dying a few times and a corpse run while still an inconvenience, it’s not too bad.

I know there was controversy when they removed the /spit emote. It wasn’t one I felt I needed to use. Most the /spit’s I saw were in battlegrounds. Being that hateful to your opposition never really seemed to be a Alliance v Horde thing, it’s we are taught generally in society that if they aren’t on your team then they are the enemy. I don’t think it’s going to matter who the opposition is, even if we bring in Alliance v Alliance PVP matches – the other team is still the other team. Going back to playing sports as kids and playing other schools – being taught ‘sportsman’ like behavior and shaking their hand at the end of the match was one thing, but truly considering them mates, or equals or even having a friendly chat didn’t happen. In professional sports team bonding is encouraged amongst your own team members to keep the team strong and loyalties clear. Do we need to feel like we belong to a team to the exclusion of all others, and would breaking down those lines between Horde and Alliance going to make everyone nicer to each other?

Generally I think if people want to be asswipes and /spit its not because of a faction is because they are asswipes. Faction wars is just an excuse ‘ But they are horde… ‘ or they are filthy Alliance… ‘

I like the idea of reducing pure Alliance v Horde PVP – I want a good game, and if that means that they can do better matching and faster queues then that’s great. I don’t think it matters if my team mate is an Orc or a Gnome, if they are on my team and we have a flag in mind, we both want to win that game. Mixing up the starting positions in PVP also means we are forced to adjust strategies and get a better feel for a map rather then starting at the same gate every time.

I don’t think we need to keep the lines between Alliance and Horde so strict – and I am supportive of blurring these where it could. We are currently fighting for the same world.

Will it make toxic players less toxic? I don’t think so, there will always be ‘otherness’ faction , race, gender. It won’t matter what your otherness is – some people will always find a way to use that to divide.

O Queue

Most of my pvp friends had stopped logging in, and my new guild were somewhat surprised when they got the Classic Battles Guild  (exalted rep with classic battlegrounds)   achieve when I joined.  Pvp achievements? What?    and so on suggestion of one friend , I installed O Queue from curse

It’s  a raid/BG queuing system that uses battletags and basically over takes your friend invite system and you can wait list yourself for  other groups that people post through the mod.

You submit your battle tag to the Mesh,  and if you get accepted into a group it automatically adds your battle tag to the leaders group.

This feature was a little confusing because I kept getting spammed with new friend requests I couldn’t see, and I was a little concerned that the friend adding feature was now randomly adding me to flists. However,  from what we can work out,  it’s using the friend request feature in someway to ping their servers or to keep you connected to the mesh so they aren’t real friend requests.

This is an example of a weekend queue list below.   As you can see there is a large variety of groups going and you can see the min requirements.  Ticking the qualified box at the bottom will filter the groups that you can queue for .

It’s quite simple to set up your own, and you can set min restrictions such as resilience or Ilevel and what this does is filter/auto declines people who do not meet your min requirements.  I made the mistake for queuing for a Pvp group while in PVE gear and it rejected me.  So you had to be wearing the gear for it to pick up your stats

Oqueue

If you hover over the person’s name who is the leader you get some stats which can be useful.  How many people are in the group. how many are in the wait list.  Wins and loses ect..

oqueue2

I ended up leading and listing one Random BG group  ( 5 man semi premade)  because the guy who set the group up had to go before we even run one,  so I was made leader, and had to list the group.  As leader you get to see your wait list,  and you can pick people from that list to refill group as people left.

The most frustrating thing with this, is dealing with people.  I’ll quote a blue in relation to a 25 LFR post because it applies to a 1o man group,  or a 5 man group.

“….. We’d be happy to entertain ideas for how we can put a group of 25 strangers together, who all have different goals, expectations, and time constraints, and see each of them remain until the end regardless of anything else that happens in the raid or in their life (drops, wipes, wife came home, cat peed on foot, etc.) ”  from forums

When I was ‘mean’ with people coming in from the wait list , I  told them if they weren’t ready to join group in 2 min or so then we would queue/find a replacement it worked well.   We played games, and for an hour we had the same 5 people.  When I got soft, and said sure,  I’ll wait for you for 5 min here,  and then another person had thing..  so 3 more min later..  and then 10 min and so on.

I also lost control of my group when someone else decided he was going to do his own thing.  Basic strat in Battle for Gil is our premade team would hit mines. He decided he was going to WW after I told them to go mines, and his response was ‘I’m going to do something different’  and I said you will weaken our offensive… we lost that BG.  Imagine saying that to your raid leader.  I’m going to do my own thing… I think this is one of the primary differences between pvp and pve mentality when it comes to organised teams in PVP. Respect for Raid leaders.

OQ has  a Public Vent with rooms available for use, and Max limit rooms to stop Spammers. We were in a room for one BG and kept getting visitors making random noises, talking /mumbling,  so I muted them and told the group I ended up leading to do the same.   One was somewhat annoying enough with his,  urgh I can only say the over sharing of his own personal enjoyment that I reported him. Within 2 min, a Mod popped into our chat to ask about the person I had reported,  I explained the circumstances and they were booted.  This was very efficient.

I like this system,  it takes the preform mods that we have used before to another level, and as there are more users there will be more options to use it for.  Oqueue lets you delete all your OQ added battletags which after you have lead a few, and you end up getting all these random people in your friendslist,  its a good thing to be able to clear them. You can also ban people  you don’t want to play with.  ( not had to test this)  I was very impressed with the Moderating of the vent,  and I ran/lead another group for 9 Bgs this arvo, and had no issues with spammers or bots at all.

You don’t have time to pee in a BG

The amount of times people go afk when they are supposed to be paying attention and are the person guarding the flag or node – only to come back dead,  or have a team-mate screaming at them ” Halp!” as they are being cut to pieces by < insert random class> and they sit there mounted oblivious.

With team mates wanting to know why they didn’t call for help – ” I was peeing” is a common response.

Biological urges –  you can’t really argue with that.

But it’s a 20 odd min bg at the max really   – some of these things can be taken care off before you enter the BG.

“Have you pee’d before entering the BG?”  its like a teacher, or a mother asking kids ” did you go” before you leave.

In my house when whenever we went on a car trip or going somewhere – making sure we pee’d before leaving  was a given, especially on a holiday trip where toilet stops and breaks were planned by distance.

Besides the buff/cookies/mage food call in the preparatory time when you enter a BG should we also be asking.

” Now have you all gone Wee wee?”

It is a tactic of stealthies to approach a node being guarded by one person,  and not even attempt to sap/stun or anything to them.  Like sly predators they sneak up to you to see if your still alive,  and if you’re not paying attention they will cap it under your nose and if it’s a druid bounce away chuckling gleefully,  or a rogue, just ‘Pops’ vanishing

Not all of these stealth caps are because of people on Bio breaks. Plain boredom,  inattention or just standing out of line of sight will do it too.

But needing to pee!

Why didn’t you go before !

Robe deep in the trenches of Rated BG’s

Still here, still playing, still logging in,  but I am logging out a lot earlier,  and a lot more often

Besides trying my luck healing some Za’s/Zg’s my most recent  passion has been Rated Battlegrounds. I had considered trying to find a guild that did them regularly in my peak times.  I even considered moving back to Oceanic servers to do it,  but most of the guilds recruiting where either hardcore into it already and I had no real ‘experience’ in a rated bg to offer,  or  they were in the recruiting phase, and unfortunately,  it’s like the very new level 1 guilds that start up with the ambition ” When we have enough people we are going to start raiding/rated bg’s”   You could be waiting a very long time.

As Disc Heals  I went on Trade pug runs,  found a couple of  groups that  tried to run them regularly, and get  a good core team,  but half their games were while I was at work, and I was having to tell random trade pug people also newly stepping into the rated BG team that  – a) they needed pvp gear,  and b) epic 1 on 1 battles in midfield are not productive.

Got thrown into some better rated teams because they always need heals, so that gave me a little boost in rating, and got me invited to better groups. Also managed to go to a couple of Guild rated runs on their off raiding nights to try to get some people started on their ratings, and  if anyone was LF Healer RBG I was like “me!!:  3.5/4k resil disc priest and whatever rating I had managed to scrape up at the time.

As an Aussie on an American server most teams have been only able to keep together for a couple of games.  The time zone and country differences usually mean at least one person has to leave to go to bed,  or have dinner, or go to work, or something,  but I have cobbled together a 1626 rating.  Aiming for the higher ended teams now

There were some bad pugs.  I submitted myself to a what felt like a rather intrusive gear inspection at a fountain,  I had nothing to hide,  but there is still something humiliating to have to stand still near someone while they spend what seemed like an eternity running their mouse cursor through your slots. It was the most detailed inspection I had been through,  and it was the worse team. If I had known they had planned on two healing straight up I would have politely declined.  I am sure that two healing is a valid strat, and while me and a druid healer,  healed our little hearts out,  keeping two healers cc’d is a lot easier than three, (  and some rateds we have come across run 4 on flag carrying maps )especially with the reduction in the classes able to dispel that cc. Not only do ” healers need to die first” and thus we became the prime targets,  trying to keep each other alive, and cc’d free in addition to healing I felt was a terrible way to do it, and it was no suprise when that team only lasted one game before disintegrating.

One of the weekends I was barking ( yes barking) strats to people in Call to arms normal BG to try to end the cycle of infinite losses that Alliance seemed to be suffering that weekend – someone picked on my win/loss ratio on the Rateds, and yes,  it’s not necessarily pretty.  I didn’t walk into a 1700 team and get carried.  I’m earning it the hard and bloody way,  in the trenches.

I was disappointed to see that it is often the way of a losing team to leave battle.  Eg if they get capped too easily or get matched up against a much higher rated team.  I thought at least in this instance,  that while you may be losing, or hitting your heads against brick walls – you are still learning – forced to think harder under pressure, even if you only just managed to pee the other team off rather than beat them.

But my journey so far is a start,  its learning,  and at first I was ashamed of my loss ratio, but this season has also been a valuable networking opportunity.  When your trade pugging rateds,  you meet other like minded people,  other groups, and get invited to another  Pvp channel  ( our old one died… ) and eventually become part of better teams.

Got into a pretty steady 3’s arena team too,  mainly for points for gear, and that has also helped but we really left it too late in the season,  but we are still winning on occasion 🙂

Stuck behind the boxes in WSG with you.

A few of the rated BG’s I have been in we have been having issues with a fear bug, and our team has been getting feared into walls/stuck behind various things.  The only solution has been to life grip the person out.

I feel like I should at least spread this solution around because I don’t think some priests are aware of this. ( Shouldn’t be bugged in the first place!!)

We were doing a Rated BG, and a Horde Pally was feared by myself into the boxes in the horde flag room. My team started to kill him while laughing at him.   I told them stop ( killing him).  We left him there, and I can imagine the raging he would have been doing on his vent. We were two flags down anyway,  we weren’t going to win.

We could have killed him, and at least let him respawn,  but I figured the times I’ve needed to life grip my team out of walls, and gotten no quarter for that, there was no reason to help them.

I could have gone so far to demonstrate a life grip in front of him to put the idea in his head, but no. I could have been a better person, I assumed eventually their priest would figure it out like I had to, but knew,  that  when she left him alone,  and ran out of that room, that she didn’t know.

He was still there one horde flag room visit a few min later.

It’s kind of on moral/cheating grey ground.  The bug in this case could have been to our advantage,  and if we had won because of that I would not have felt good about it.  I will take responsibility because I verbally stopped actions that would have eventually free’d him by default, and  I explained the consequences to my team of leaving him there,  that he was stuck.

There is also this faction difference.  He was the enemy,  freeing him from the bug would have been a mercy, and I doubt he would have responded kindly by refusing to kill or heal when it came to it.  How could I free  him knowing that he could be the instrument of my own death. ( yes very melodramatic)

Would you pass a person in distress?  No

Would you look a Horde pally in the eye, knowing you could free him from his confines, and then leave him. Alone?

You may now address me as Corporal Zahraah. Obtained from BG’s that I didn’t have moral grey areas I needed to consider.


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