Posts Tagged 'premade'

Winning by demoralising the enemy

The Calvary jumps over the embankment,  and the hooves of the array of mounts hit the dusty ground with a thump.   They thunder across the grass, leaves and dirt flying out behind them,   hands hold tight to reigns,  bodies bent forward  into the wind, they are off and racing……..


They all stop.  Pull up the reins of their mounts.  hesitant.  Their mounts stamp impatiently,  tossing their heads in frustration at having their charge broken, because up ahead,  just over the rise ,  already firmly planted,  with spells charging, and weapons ready,  the enemy is waiting for them.

There is what we call the ‘clean up.’  Meet the horde head on  in the middle of their zerg run, and wipe them up.  It sounds a bit like honor farming, considering at that time we aren’t heading straight to the their flag room.  The main purpose of this clean up, is to force them all back into their GY, break them up because they will all die at different times and get different rez timers, and most importantly demoralize them.

It’s hard to come back from being obliterated. Any team spirit they managed to muster in that initial push is gone.   They will hesitate when they rez,  some will go afk,  some will try to go around,  and others will just jump blindly into our group only to be cleaned up again, and while we keep them occupied at the base of their graveyard someone breaks off and we go for their flag, all the while looking for leakers that go after ours.

I like the clean up better than the “Lets all  zerg together” strat when we go for your flag,  you go for ours, and we meet in the middle for a glorious battle.

That’s not really demoralizing.  Both teams get this successful feeling of having grabbed the enemy’s flag so will fight harder, you need to snatch away their spirit before they get to touch the flag.

What I shall call a distracting farm, which is more humane than a full farm seems to work quite well.  The opposition get so caught up in the apparent endless cycle of rezzing and dying that they don’t  try to go for the flag.  If you can keep enough people at their base to catch the rezzers, then you control the whole field.  We don’t like to torture, there is more honor points earned, and honor to have by winning the next bg so we do cap the flag somewhat efficiently.

There is a psychology to winning in a BG.   There is only so many times you can hit your head against a brick wall.  Even premades suffer from it.  People are more likely to leave a group after a loss, the earlier on you can shatter the opposing teams confidence,  the more likely you will win.

Bging with 5 man only teams have been interesting – certainly more challenging.  I have been looking at forums for why we are no longer able to queue with more than five people in a BG as a premade,  and not found anything official on it yet, but the consensus seems to that it was done because when rated BG’s come out you queue for rated, and not as pugs, and it would not be fair to allow premades to compete against Pugs.

Maybe at 85 when they have been playing for months and have gotten rewards,  but not now.  There is no gear or opportunity balance.  Everyone has equal access to gear.

So how is this not fair?

I’m going to argue that the main component of unfairness is that people do premades because they want to win.   They want to work as a team.

The real unfair part is that pugs have to deal with people in your own team that basically do not have the same goals as you do, they want to play in the sandpit more than they want to win.  That’s the unfairness –  not who you oppose,  but who you fight with. Your own side is often your worst enemy.

The only thing a Premade has advantage of over a pug is the teamwork.   A premade will work as a team.  A Pug often doesn’t.  So maybe that’s where rated BG’s come in.   Pugs can play in the sandpit.  The serious people will play rated, but that means that the people who don’t want to play rated,  but do want to have fun will be forced to play with the people who cbf’d.

When do you start to get serious about bg’s

40k words!  let me rejoice for  a moment…. 10k to go

Now back to Wow

So I have been doing a fair few server based premades. I lie. When I am logged into my main.  I am either in a BG,  or hanging round a city waiting for someone to leave the group so I can go into a bg.

I even respec’d my offspec as Disc so I could be more useful.  I do ok holy healing ; I just wasn’t getting the respect even if I could spit out the heals faster than an engineer could parachute off the top of our  tunnel in wsg.  ( half way down the field and so hard to catch)   Disc is better.   (well it was.. ) it still feels off to me, nowhere near like disc used to feel like pre talent changes, but if I was going to pvp heal even as an offspec I felt I should take it a little more serious and be in a more ideal spec,  so my main is now two pvp specs ,  Shadow and Disc.     ( just goes to show you have little pve is she is doing at the moment) leveling in Cata will change that though as no one seems to want to pvp untill 85

We faceroll pugs.  We can even faceroll other premades because they seem to have picked up random people from their trade channel.  Put us against a serious team with the right classes,  a few shadowmournes, and a collection of arena achieves and even we are in trouble.  Yes we have have people in our team who don’t really play pvp, people who don’t have resilience, heals in uncomfortable specs, healers who try dps for kicks when the group allows for it.   We are even doing all sorts of achieves for people,  but against the real premades.   That’s the real test and its also been the best challange.  You find out your mettle, and exactly how well you work together as a team.

The groups that strategize, that stick together, protect the flag carrier,  don’t peel off and do their own thing,  that are in the right specs, in the right gear  that CC,  that communicate. If you’re doing  3 of those things,  then your usually at least 2 things ahead of the average joe in a BG.

No matter how good you are, there is always someone better, or more co-ordinated, but as some of our hapless victims have found out,  just cause your a premade  does not make you organised enough to actually react to strategy changes.

My word of the month is ‘disappointed’.  instead of going off at the pugs that don’t want to help,  or start moaning when we haven’t 5 capped ab in 3 min, and that we fail as a premade.   I tell them I am disappointed with their lack of team effort.

Sometimes I wish I think it would be easier to underman the Bg,  because when pugs see premade they are 300% more likely to go afk. No one has asked  – “where do you want me.?”  or ” How can I help”  they beetch and moan when we ask them to go somewhere,  or ignore us completely,  then beetch and moan when they don’t get support on picking up the flag or taking a node.

When we don’t have a full team running,  we do try and work with the pugs.. even support their achievements,  ( yep..  )  if they ask nicely…   we include them in the strat if they prove to be useful, otherwise they become cannon fodder.  Sorry.

Uncooperative pug players seem to die more often..    so where is that heal button?

I can’t be too angry with the Tards and Asshats.  It’s still a game,  I seem to get a better response  when I play the ‘sad and disappointed’ in their behaviour rather than raging at them.  It’s still feeding them, but it is sad and disappointing.  We are supposed to be on the same team  but spend as much time fighting each other.  I really hope that in real life they aren’t the angry little boys/little men/women/ girls that they pretend to be in bg’s.  Cause they would probably have ulcers.

It’s about to get a little more serious now.  If you think BG raging was fun pre rated battlegrounds, well.  There is going to be more to lose now.

So that’s my pvp update.

I shall make more sense when I am not thinking in daily word counts.  It’s easy,  but it’s also creatively hard.  I feel drained,  there has been lots of kicking the voice that says I will fail in the head too, but getting that goal is probably the single most important thing to me at the moment. It’s a weight on my shoulders..  really..  carrying lappy, and charger to work every day plus the normal assortment of  notebooks, pens, reading books, I feel like a packhorse.

Welcome to Bloodlust

I think I should welcome all these new random people who keep popping up in the BLOODLUST Bg’s .Yes you came to us,  not the other way around.

so /wave to the Alliance,  and /mock to the hordies.  I shall  be seeing you all in the BG’s


The Battleground matching systems are changing/having changed and I keep seeing all sorts of weird realms in my Lfg’s and Bg’s. I might get to face off my Horde friends on Jubie’thos after all – Mwhahaha.

What it does mean is  there is  larger variety of  realms represented.  eg there will be one from each realm rather than 2 or three, and considering that I have played/play on 3 realms within the old bloodlust group – it was nice  ( and sometimes not so nice) to run into people from time to time I knew/played with.

Besides doing the cross server premades with QueueQ I have been  doing the odd server based semi premade  WSG’s from our ‘fightclub’ chat channel ( no its not called that,  but it is a fight club of sorts)  and even if we can scrounge up just three or four people  it increases our chances of a win, and it’s good to work with people who know what they are doing.

We went up against a Kaz’garoth  premade last night and won.  There was only 4 of us as a premade group,  but it was enough to keep their better players locked up.  People from our group had been disheartened “Oh noes verses a full premade”   but  we headed them off in the middle and cleaned them up – they didn’t seem to have many healers. We  stopped them from getting to our flag room, and a druid was able to sneak in and grab their flag. As soon as we got the first cap – ” We are winning against a premade  I love Bloodlust!” says one of the guys from the new realms. We won 3/0  It wasn’t easy.  They had organisation,  just that their lack of healers hurt them when we were able to wipe them up quicker.

The one BG we lost last night had , us 4 and had a team of 3 from Nagrand  who decided that they would guard the flag room.  After they had told the BG what to do and we let them lead and they spent the first 5 min bickering amongst themselves  about who of them was supposed to do what.  I suggested that given that we were also a premade, and they couldn’t stop arguing perhaps we could take over.  So they waited for us to work our ‘magic’.  ( while still arguing  with each other)  I got a whisper from one apologising for their behaviour ” the girls are excited  and just want to defend the flag room”  I told him I wished they would stop fighting. 

Well they were nicer to us,  but then they started having a go at the rest of the bg.  We lost, and you would think that it would have been easier to work together.

In general I am finding worse behaviour in the pugs. I am not sure if it’s because you really are part of a bigger group of strangers than before, or even just the general cbf’d attitude in the cata lead up.  There was always the chance of queuing with someone from your realm – now it’s a lot slimmer. You can misbehave even more with no consequences.

What is fun.

I realised I probably have mentioned “Having fun” too many times lately.  I could just be saying” It’s all fun” because if I say  it enough I can convince myself that I am having fun, but no there are still things I am genuinely feeling ‘gleeful’ about. So I should explain.

I enjoy a challenge, however,  fun,  rip snorting,  unbridled passionate glee that brings out a very predator nature in myself.

That is currently Pvp at the moment for me – it aint got nothing on no boss kill.

As much as I like winning ( and I need those HK’s 73k/100k Hk’s for “Of the Alliance title” ) It’s not fun beating on people more than a few times when your obviously the superior  party. When we are winning I don’t stand underneath the graveyard often for the farm. I’m on my bike slightly midfield looking for escapees, or as I called out the other night. ” They are leaking!”

I love hunting down errant strays that try to escape the initial zerg clean up. I have fun locking you up as you try to sneak up the side.   I will mindvision you to see what corner you are hiding in,  if you’re comming down tunnel or graveyard, and I will hunt you down, and  eat into your health pool. It makes me feel powerful, like a goddess, holding a squishy bug in the palm of your hands. I AM SHADOW PRIEST  HEAR ME………..


*falls to the ground as someone  kicks my pedestal out from under me

This special ‘fightclub’  ( can I talk about fight club?)  of a chat channel that was lucky enough to get invited to is cross guild /includes randoms like myself,  and when a call to arms ” Who wants to do WSG” gets asked.


I get more from  the challenge of a good game where they fight back,  and queqing as a server based premade means that your more likely to face full, or partial premades, and we have had some awesome games because of it.  Fun for me  has never been about getting top damage, or killing blows, or honor farming.   It’s using all your tools of your party at your disposal, Dps, heals, dispels, cc – being an intricate web of destruction and communication. 

Of course  I don’t always win a 1v1 – I don’t have much arena skill, and most of my arena experience was done as disc, but I am doing ok, its also been good to know as well when you need help your team will come running and vice versa.

The irony is that most of these people doing the server based premades are from pve guilds, and I have seen more requests for retro runs from people in my guild then pvp requests and we are supposed to be a pvp guild.  Maybe when cata comes out it will all be sorted out.

QueueQ Premades – What have they taught you

I participate in QueueQ  premades run on Bloodlust Battlegroup every now and then,  Staying in Bloodlust Battlegroup was an important thing to me when I transferred my main because I like the battlegroup, it’s been pretty much the only battle group I know and my win/loss ratio has never caused me ongoing issues. It also means I get to do premades on the big bg weekends still.

 I have more time to BG now I am guildless, and not raiding and because I like participating in organised content I have been doing more premades.  So the AV long weekend, and IOC long weekend  have been good opportunities for some Honor, and some Honor Kills.

By participating in a  dungeon raid, you learn about the encounter, what effects are likely to occur, the behaviour of the boss, and the mechanics of the fight. Participating in  QueueQ organised premades have given me  a little more insight into the tactics within the battleground.

It’s not just about listening to what your told. Or having the power to move a mass of bodies quickly.  Most QueueQ’s will explain the strat if there is a lull.  Why you do not cap that point ( so you can control where they rez) . Why you stay at the back of the tower and not hang out on the ledge. ( so you can’t be gripped off ect ) ,   Some of the stuff is common sense, but other stuff the average pvper does not think about  or even has the power to suggest or control.  One little voice screaming in BG chat – DON”T CAP THAT gets ignored. One  voice in a vent channel with 40 odd other people saying Don’t cap that is more likely to be listened to. ( accept if its a  damn pug )

One of the first big differences you notice in a AV Queque premade is that everyone always goes left of Belinda.  Quite simply –  it’s a shorter route. I’m not sure how it was measured, but it ‘feels’s shorter  In a normal BG the crowd always follows the road to the right.  I am surprised given the popularity of the QueueQ premades in Bloodlust, especially on an AV weekend, and the likelihood that I am not the only person who does the premades,that sometimes gets AV for my daily random BG, that this little alteration to the herd like sheep norm hasn’t been adopted in non premade AV’s.  You can tell who remembers their ‘training’ in an Normal AV, and your lucky if you get 2 or three going left.

Because the standard Alliance AV strat in a normal BG is a Zerg  – it’s funny how everyone is happy to run as fast as they can to the end,  cap  Relief Hut,  cap the towers, jump off the towers, and then jump and down or dance on ‘Fail’hill’   That little hill outside the entrance.  It’s a nice little hill to play on while your waiting. Stand on there though, and the horde sneaking into the towers to recap have enough time to cap it before you realise what’s happening.   This is another strat/ piece of common sence that is drummed into you in a premade – yet I rarely see practised in a normal BG.

In IOC this weekend I learned all about the benefit of not defending the workshop. You get more demos when you take the flag back.  Stuff like that – Tactics, communication, and teamwork. In a non premade  It’s rare you see someone warn the rest of the BG about the health of our gate. Or the progress of the hordes gate.  Direct all demos to one gate, get people to think about where they park it to avoid damage when firing, and so hard to get people to read chat in a normal.

Most Pvp is people running around like chickens with their head cut off. Participating in Pug Raids/BG’s  still means you may get to kill stuff, but being part of organised, regular content,  being it Pve/Pvp means you learn a lot more – think a lot more and the given win a lot more.  

I am looking forward to Rated BG’s – we will see how I go. I would like to be involved in a regular group to BG, and I hope QueueQ does something server-based ( if possible)

A premade of 5 does not equal team work

On entering the BG, in the flag room we were told  5 man ‘premade in vent – clear the middle we are going for flag

5 people in tandem went and got the flag – protected the flag on the way and then turtled the flag in the flag room and as far as they were concerned were doing their job by sticking unfailing to each other and the flag.

It still took us till the timer  25 min  to win with only 2 flags.  Did we win – sure.  But they were so stuck in their little group that they didn’t try to prevent our flag being taken on their way back down.  Their only goal was to get the flag.  Not kill the horde flag carrier who ran just a little to the left of their group because it wasn’t their self designation job.

When I asked was anyone trying to  go for our flag the leader said

“My Team is with me and the flag”

2 people as soon as they saw premade went and  started honor farming at the horde graveyard.  Died, and went back and did it again – so there was me going for the flag,   one person who got reported for AFK – and the last person was alternating between suicide runs and trying to hang out with the 5 to protect the flag,

Horde decided to turtle,  so getting back our flag was proving to be impossible.

The Fabulous five were being so narrow minded in their strat – and even claimed the reason for victory as being all thanks to them.

The biggest advantage that a premade on vent has over a group of pugs is that they can communicate a lot faster.  Offer reports on flag status,  incommings,  outgoing,  Yet there was no communication necessary for them.  they were like drones. It was kind of funny watching their little yellow dots on the BG map sticking so close to each other  – any information they had wasn’t communicated to the BG  – they didn’t care about what else was going on – didn’t ask who was going for the flag – or get involved in our discussion about how to get around the turtle with two people going for a flag.  They had done their job,  and that was it.

I don’t understand why  they are willing to wait 25 min a bg to win,  when they have a premade advantage and could have used that  better than having tea party’s in the flag room.

Us v Us : The Real battle in a BG

It’s been coming all the more clearer with the amount of Pvping I am doing,  that the biggest battle in a BG is not with the opposite faction,  it’s with your own team.

It’s not just the people who are unsure what they are doing, don’t know how to play.  It’s the semi premades   doing their own thing,  the afkers,  the whiners,  the hecklers.    I have been all of the above except the Afker.  It’s a battle to find that synergy between your needs and wants and that of the BG, and this can be more so seen in a 10 man per side WSG then the other Bg’s

There was a semi premade in a Bg this weekend – afking in the enemy flag room – I get there to see them all standing round,  doing nothing.  Sighing I grab the flag and try and run back failing – I die. Rez and go back again.   Pick up the flag amongst a group of three still standing there and start running again.

Bring it back” – I get a whisper from one of the afkers.
The flag bring it back – we are doing achievement
Tough” I say and keep running
F&*^K you

The little group of premades started abusing us – the rest of the Bg for not helping them in doing their achievement. At no time did they ask or inform us of their plan, or try and get the rest of the Bg in on it – Co-operation would have been better. They didn’t even try.

“It’s my thing” said one when we quizzed him how his self interest was helping the bg – and that affectively they were being as bad as the Afker we had already reported, and was a red dot following random people all over WSG
“Making sure you fail is going to be my thing” I say.

Well they failed, and we lost the BG. I didn’t feel satisfied. I wasted a BG – no rep – bare honor. I was being snarky – My goal is 19k more rep. My Armory may not show it, but I’m into the Revered bracket, and now 19k away from exalted. ( yeah for WSG holiday weekend) My goal is my ultimate thing. My thing goes along with the general consensus of the BG thing. Win. We win – we get rep – I am happy.
Their thing went against the general consensus of the BG thing. They interfered with the goals of the 7 other players in the Bg, and there was enough of them to affectively throw the match in the pursuit of their goal. If there were 8 or 9 of them going after the achievement – sucks to be the other players – majority rules – but when they weren’t a signficant part of the group I think they were unfairly affecting the goals and purpose of the other players.

If everyone did their own thing in a BG – there is no team work – and a massive decrease in the chances of winning.

If your going to do achievements that involve ruining the game of the other players.  Stop and consider going to the effort of getting up a proper premade group to do it. 

Cheers to the people who read this – and who suffered through some of those WSG’s with me this weekend.

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