Posts Tagged 'Pvp'

Pvping in BG’s – WSG

So Spiritual guidance had a piece on the basis of Shadow Priest Pvp today and is correct in that the ‘randomness’ of Pvp it’s hard to tell people what to do,  especially on the scale of a BG. I realized that for someone who does an awful lot of battlegrounds and shares I guess general experiences in BG’s  – I don’t actually say many things useful for a person wanting to know what a Shadow Priest, can or should do in a BG
There is lots of difficulty  in explaining how to pvp – and there is how I do stuff, and there is how they do stuff, so it’s very much open to criticism, or interpretation, it’s also very circumstantial and  it’s a forced team sport. The less people in the BG contributing to the success in a meaningful manner mean the less likely you will win, and if you have 10 or more people running with multiple ideas of ‘what they think is right’  it’s not  easy.
  I was hoping there would be more stuff around on rated BG’s but there doesn’t seem to be.  I had envisaged people reading  the great military generals, the classic strategists and applying them to rateds. My own experience in rateds have been restricted to trade pugs and random gatherings  and given I have resisted the call of raiding I think if I found a stable Pvp Guild that did rateds seriously and  with more regularity in my peak playing times then just for the points I would jump ship/server
 Because I’ve never talked about what I do in a Bg,   I  plan on breaking this down into individual posts one for each BG . It’s a discussion, it’s what I do – and I may not always be right.
I’m starting WSG because it’s the BG I played the most.
Initial Zerg
Both sides like to zerg,  or run together to the other teams flag room.  Most of the time though 10 people don’t make it to the other end. Some people go ramp,  some tunnel,  some wander off midfield,  or get stopped or killed along the way.
If we are in semi premade  ( 5 grouped party members or less ) we will cut the horde’s zerg off  – best case we wipe them/split them up over rez timers so we don’t have a concentrated assault for any future offense.
They usually don’t expect to have their zerg interrupted, so like lost deer they will stand mid field hesitating on their mounts  blinking in shock.
By the time they have recovered we have targeted the healers and are taking them down one by one, and pushing them back towards their rez point.
People also get tunnel vision,  present them with a target and they will forget that their real aim should have been to ride/sneak past us and head to the flag room and instead they dismount engage in combat.
We break up their Zerg because  It’s demoralizing, and it makes sense to delay their first flag grab, while the rest of your team grabs theirs . When you all  run out of the starting room together, your united,  your a Team. GO TEAM!  Break up that team, and have people rezing in different 30 sec rez time means that their team of 10 becomes 4 or 5 and are much easier to deal with and contain, and your less likely to have larger groups chasing after your flag carrier.
( Ideally because the Horde have committed themselves to offense  the rest of our team has already grabbed the flag and are running towards mid field to ‘us the defenders’ who can assist by cleaning up an attacking horde and giving the flag carrier an escort)
If I am Solo, and  If I feel like being a pain – I’ll head them off on my own. This is a suicide mission,  and the aim is to delay them/break them up or even just pee them off.
Try to drop a Fear in the middle of their Zerg. Some will dismount to kill you  Trinket out of their initial stuns, Psychic horror a melee,  Silence a caster,   Shield, and when about 40k health I then disperse, and jump around for 6 secs making the melee chase me,  hoping that my fear is off cool down so I can get one last fear bomb off before I collapse and die. Why do it?,  if I get can get them to dismount then I have succeeded in breaking their zerg.
Chasing Flag Carriers
When your flag does get picked up by the opposing team As a Shadow Priest you can  /tar the flag carrier and Mind vision them to see where they are at.  (I Like Mind Vision in BG’s ) Report their location, Ping the map/tell Bg/ and the defence crew can clean them up. My Mindvision will fail if they are in the tunnel and I am mid field, once they become in line of site in the tunnel ( stand in front of tunnel) , I can then target them. If they run up top  I can report that they are going Ramp or GY.  Sometimes the Flag carrier seeing his is being Mind V’d starts doing stupid things, stops mid tunnel, runs back,  or  will hesitate and forget that they are supposed to getting that flag  to their base and will run off into all sorts of weird side directions to hide.
Flag carriers can be pesky things if they can blink, or have a speed boost.  It’s all very well  to kill the healer first,  but  sometimes you need to make sure the flag carrier doesn’t out run you, and their healer. It can be hard to get out of combat in time to mount up and chase ( and they don’t need heals if you can’t run after them fast enough to hit them)  Fear/Psychic horror to get them to stop running in a straight line.  Then if you have team members around you,  keep them slowed by spamming Mindflay – as long as you have that channeled on them it gives the rest of your team time to dps them down, and can more useful than if you were doing normal dps rotation on them.
Don’t forget your fiend.  He hits reasonably hard, and can be annoying when he is wailing on the flag carrier is also something you can throw at them while your running to get close enough to stand and cast.
Spell wise, Devouring plague has a damage on application affect, so if you can’t stop and cast Mindblast or Mindflay then chasing them while keeping SWP on them,  Shadow word deathing on Cool down, fiending,  and spamming DP on them for the intial damage I find helps get their health down.
Learn to Peel, Mcing the healer is one way to shut them up/interrupt their casting/ Slow  or CC the flag carriers support crew so it makes it harder for them to help the FC, but don’t get distracted and end up having epic mid field battles.
I am also glyphed for a faster casting Mass dispel,  great for getting team mates out of hungering cold,  or mage circles, and removing buffs from the enemy.
Being the Flag carrier.
I wrote this test Post a while back. It’s not ideal to be the flag carrier. It doesn’t matter how much resilience you have,  if you’re getting attacked stunned, feared silenced your going to need help.
I don’t take the flag if I’m in the Zerg – other people want to fight over the privilege, and you often have no idea if just because they are in Pvp gear, are plate wearers or have large health pools,  that they won’t do stupid things like get into a bike as a passenger and drop the flag,  or vanish, or shadow Meld,  or try to hop on their mount, you can try to support the person who is flag carrying ( until they prove that they are bad at flag carrying)
This may mean that you need to help heal/shield. That post pretty much covers all the things we can do to keep ourselves alive.
If no one else is going for the flag and no one is near then I will pick it up and try and carry it. Be sneaky,  wait in the doorway up top until a rez wave happens and they aren’t looking back at their own base,  I favor going up the sides. Not everyone has distance enabled on their views, and may have difficulty seeing you on screen.  When they do catch up do your best to keep them off you, aim to cc by fearing/horror then stopping and killing.   Dot up enemy’s that are following you so you get your trickle of healing return from Vampiric embrace, and save your trinket/dispersion for when you really need it,  but also don’t die having not used them.
Healing as a Shadow Priest in the BG
I will break out of Shadow form to heal if I HAVE to,  we take additional damage, lose spell damage bonuses, and it costs mana to return back to Shadow form. You are crippling us by assuming  we will break form every time someone needs a top up.  We do not have the mana regen out of shadow form to be great healers.  We can help you,  but eventually we will go oom, and then we get targeted and die anyway( and yelling “Heal me you B*tch priest isn’t going to make me  heal you)
I have a healing bar set up ‘under’ my shadow form bar.  When I drop form my bars change, and I have set up things like fear/shield and some heals on my main buttons  and I use VuhDu the healing mod, so I can cast a healing spell by clicking on the frames to get me out of shadow and heal on the target.   I will drop my form if I can see that I will help you.  If you have no resilience, and getting attacked by 6 horde. your written off as a lost cause. But there are Shadow Priests that absolutely refuse to drop form.  Me it really depends.
If you can keep the flag carrier alive long enough for the real healer to catch up or even top the FC up if it’s too much for the healer to handle  then it might be a good idea to do it.  We are utility – and if we can be productively flexible and contribute  to the success then we all win ( but don’t do it too often because it will gimp you)
I know that hasn’t covered everything, but I guess depending on how this post is received I will do one for each BG.

Alliance to the Bone

I have flirted with Horde side a few times. They seem to be the most abandoned of my alts though, they don’t have the support system meaning the toons with complementary professions and the gold my alliance do, it makes and easier to walk away from.

When a friend moved to Jubie’thos Horde side PVP server for raiding,  I dug out a horde hunter that had made it to her 40’s on there ,  and had already gone through 2 motivational surges throughout my Wow playing history,   the first one was when RL friends started a BE female only guild for which I rolled her for, and her first revival when one of my raiding guilds decided to play alts on Jubie  horde side for a short period,  so for what I thought would be a minor revival,   I logged in and brushed off the dust; deleted the bag full of arrows and spent the little gold she had on a better riding skill and some glyphs, and then I kept playing.

I got to look around the server, and was surprised to see how many people were on during my peak hours.  I’ve now spent a fair bit of time on US servers with high Aussie populations, and their Aussie peak are nothing like a real Aussie peak on a real oceanic server.

I hung out until a level 25 guild invited me and I am in a random guild that invites rabble like myself randomly just because we are tagless.

She is 67 now, but I want her to 85 just so I can have at least one 85 horde side. but I am having some allegiance issues, firstly Jubie’thos is a PVP realm, and those pesky Alliance try to kill me when I am questing,  and then secondly there are the  BG’s I throw myself into to mix up my leveling.

My first reaction to seeing a higher score on the BG board next to the Alliance symbol,  is ‘yipee’ we are winning.  Except I know I shouldn’t be getting exciting over Alliance winning while I am playing Horde.

I also feel guilty killing Alliance races.

I’ve spent so many years killing horde that their faces are a blur – I don’t pick out their races, or notice their hair.  All I see is a red tag about their head that makes them fair game,  but now,  killing Alliance brings a small attack of conscience Instead of oh,  I killed a enemy,  it’s awee I killed a little Gnome… or Aweee the poor furry faced worgen, and dwarves – I see a red headed dwarf female and I think,  how can I shoot something that looks like ‘me’ ( my level 85 hunter being red headed dwarven female)  or the other more often  me,  a NE shadow priest, or the other not so much me’s

You  see it’s become even harder since I finally got my 100k kills on my Priest,   I guess that technically now makes me a life time sworn enemy of the Horde.  I wear my badge of Hk’s as my title,  and I was thinking; FINALLY (  considering I always seem to end up baby sitting something because no ones else does  – rather than zerging like all those other people with mass amounts of Hk’s do. )

Is Pvping supposed to be about winning.

I met this random person a BG. Sorta. I don’t remember their name, but we were babysitting Lumbermill  and I was sleeping  at the foot of the node in boredom and got to talking about the state of Alliance on each others realms,  and they mentioned that they had just recently changed to Alliance because they were

“Sick of horde….  they care more about K’b’s than tactics to win bgs”

I didn’t get to tell them ” Honey..  we are the same on this side too” because we got distracted by a hordie trying to cap the node.

I’ve been a big fan of playing to Win in Pvp,  but that’s not all there is to Pvp in Bg’s anymore.

It’s about Hk’s it’s about K’B’s, it’s about Faction Rep,  Guild Rep, getting achievements  and sometimes its just about being a D*ck because it’s a Bg full of strangers.

Even I have conflicting motivations right now,  I don’t really care about honor,  I’ve been buying chanting mats for weeks so I’m not wasting my cap, and I am So close to my 100k kills –

Which means I should not be babysitting nodes.  I should be chaining AV’s and dotting up everything,  instead I end up baby sitting Lumbermill,  I think I was born with this ‘must take responsibility’ gene. So when the person who capped it runs off,  and my pleas of ” you cap it you keep it” is falling on deaf ears I still feel obligated to stay and guard.  Cause we are playing to win first right?

But does anyone actually care if we win  or lose anymore?  When a loss means that you can still satisfy your need to top Hk’s, K’b’s or get, or get closer to what ever achievement your working on now.

The only thing winning does is give you more honor,  so if most of the BG doesn’t give a crap about honor – why would they give a crap about winning.

And besides,  isn’t it more fun to run a muck… doing what you want zerging bases

The simple motivation to want to win isn’t enough anymore.  We are more ok with losing because we get closer to some other goal, when it could all be so simple,  the single desire to win.

I have that  objective sitting on my screen.  I watch it ticking over. I’m not sure what will happen when I get it.

I want to wear the ” Of the Alliance” title, and then I shall faction change and wear
Of the horde just for the Irony that I got it killing horde. ( kind of kidding)

WSG: now designed for a Better Farm.

Why did they lower the Graveyards / Rez points in WSG? – I am yet to see how this benefits either side in anyway,  it is just making it easier for the opposition to farm.

One of my pet hates in BG’s is farming,  if you are in a position to farm then well you have already won the battle, and now your just torturing players.

The position of the Graveyards now,  halfway down the walls  from where they used to be prior to Patch 4.1 means you can’t escape from a GY farm in WSG

If you control the position my hunter is standing in the pic below,  you control the whole entire GY.  Before, when it used to be up top,  you could avoid it, by running alone the edge of the fence on the top,  and jump down over the tunnel entrance,  running off to the far side and sneaking down,  or even running  down the ramp.   You had a better chance of getting away.

Now the area you have to ‘defend’ to farm is much smaller, and there is no way to get away from a farm.

In addition

Pets of what seems to be all the pet classes can get up there,    Warriors with  charge,    Rogues can shadow step?, Druids can pounce,   ( have I missed any class?) and once they are up there in the enemy graveyard,  they can pick off the rezers as they rez in 2’s or threes which means it gets harder to launch a real defense.

I can’t imagine this was the Pvp that Blizz had in mind when they decided to make that change, and the only reason I can think of was to reduce potential fall damage from jumping off the GY ( hit the slant on the rock and didn’t take any)

I’ve been playing my hunter a little more and gearing her up for Pvp . The 4.1 Hunter changes gave her a bit of a damage boost,  and and I am in love with her helm from the  ilevel 352 Bloodthirsty gladiators gear.

“Do what you want, ‘cause a pirate is free,

I shall not get into the practicality of  a permanent eyepatch on a hunter.  ( but it still looks pretty cool)

She also managed to find the prettiest spider in all of Azeroth  from Darkshire. Everyone else seems to have Ugly black and brown spiders,  and the first one I found when looking for a spider was the girliest / sigh    – but me and Zip have grown attached to Squeeky  ( yes that was deliberate )  I picked up a nasty habit of using the term “Squee”  and it  seemed to fit.

Can’t Shoot the Orphan

Said one person in our Bg

But just imagine if you could! It would be a new achievement ” Keep your Orphan alive for a whole bg”.  You could get a super heal,  or even maybe arm your orphan with a special ability,  like making opponents fall down in a heap of giggles for 3 sec. ( I’m sure that would go down better than if you actually gave them weapons)

It’s children’s week again,  and the school of hard knocks achievement is back interfering in my BG’s.  I felt strongly about it last year.

This year it only popped up in the last few hours of Sunday night Pvp  as some of the realms started ticking over to children’s week.  So I haven’t had to have a go at many people yet, and rage at them.  It probably helped that in the BG’s we played there was 5 of us in a semi premade,  and we didn’t rouse on the achievement mongers too much because we brought some people in who wanted the achieve.

It doesn’t work so much if the whole team wants the achieve, and the entire bg is spent in gesticulated conversions and ” such and such makes a strange gesture at you”  when trying to communicate with the Horde that you promise not to kill them as long as they voluntarily drop the flag.

It might be a good idea,  as some people suggested to me last year.  Just to avoid the BG’s for the week.

It was kind of funny because in one,  one person was trying to do Frenzied defender ( 5 returns in one bg) while others were trying to the single return for the Orphan, and then someone else wanted Ironman.  ( 3 flag caps)  So who’s achievement was more important?

That particular system really discourages you from working with your own team. Your first goal is to satisfy your own achievement needs. Wants,  desires – whatever.

My needs were simple. WIN!

This year, my argument of you doing premades to get the achievement is kind of not as possible because you can only do 5 man semi premades now, and besides the other team still needs to be co-operating and not kill you.

I think I might just avoid BG’s because really,  what would I do in them? If I tried to kill horde my team mates would yell at me for interfering with their achievement,  I could hope to find others like me, there to pvp and band together against the scourge Plague of Orphans,  I could find a nice spot to waste my time, like dancing in the GY while I waited for each side to drop their respective flags, and return them.

I could start a campaign to boycott Bgs untill it’s over,  then all that will be left in them will be people fighting over the achievement.


*blah* leaves Bg ( having completed achieve)

*blahblah* enters Bg – ” Hi! I want to do the achievement”

*blahblah* returns flag


*blahblah* leaves the Bg

I have acquired Portal 1 which may keep me occupied enough to not get the urge to Pvp for the week.

Freeze! I’m a frost mage – Here, have a iceblock.

While doing some rated BG’s last night with our fightclub, and swapping to my newly minted 85 frost mage – who managed to rack up 1.4 resil  – I realised I had replaced my dispelling machine ( priest) with a Freezing in place machine and in comparison to the other better geared pvpers who didn’t spend their time using 5 freezing abilities on cool down – I wasn’t doing as much damage.

Why is there no CC counter?
I froze  ** players in place
I slowed  ** players
I sheeped  **
** got caught in my Frozen circle
Lots n Lots of Ice.
Frozen Circle
Frost Nova
My Pets freeze  – that I can manually force
Cone of Cold,
Deep Freeze
I thought playing a mage I would be able to enjoy this hahah all I have to do is pew pew – but no I’m expected to decurse, and CC everything to the max – and only then after I have blinked away away from the bladestorming warrior can I take the time to spend 2.3 seconds casting a single target spell.

I swapped back to my Priest for a couple and ended up baby sitting nodes, and I learnt that yes you can mass dispel your team through 3 frost circles. It just takes a lot of mana – and they still don’t accomplish much because all it does is mass dispel that current block, and they get reblocked all over again – in theory I would have probably been more useful dpsing and tying up the mages, and leaving my team frozen till the circles despawned

My mage is my Herber/Alchemist who was leveled for the purpose of  flash supplier for my raiding – and I just hadn’t gotten into her – probably my most lack luster leveling experience 1-80  ever. But lately I want to play my mage. Once I hit 82 I was herbing by flying to places I couldn’t get ports to, doing my circles, and making my gatherer map a pretty illustration of flowers. Then I queued a couple of times for dungeons  – partly as a way to get gear – and just to see how I went.  Then started going into BG’s – realizing I wasn’t doing too badly.

And then…

We did a Rated 15 last week, and they had 5 frost mages.  5 Frost circles that block bridges.

I wanted one

and thus I became motivated to  get my mage to 85

Never fear, the priest has my heart, however in rated BG’s your class composition  seems to have a massive affect with how you stack the raid, much like arena composition –  and its all about locking people up.



I get knocked down – and then I ghost out

I was queuing solo for WSG and most of the BG’s had a premade component to them.

There was 6 from one realm ( they qued  doing a ‘pop’   – all enter at once to bypass the 5 man restriction)  who demanded I go heals.  I have come a long way from the refusing to heal for people.  But Holy in BG’s in painful even when you know your team has your back.  Spurting out some flashes and renews only to be stampeded by the opposing team is not my idea of fun for a complete bunch of strangers.  1.3 resil in a Pvp dps spec, and all the wonderful trappings and stuns, silences and fears  I have,  I was better off staying in Shadow,  and healing if someone  needed –  and they did have hybrids on their own team.  After asking them – why they que’d as premades without heals,  I told them no.  ” I let them down” apparently.

There was a premade from Kilrogg that managed to get 7 in  and they all ghosted out when they found themselves getting farmed by a superior horde team- as per the above Screenshot.  Take my word for it that it wasn’t just a bad rez timer.  Yes stupid me went for the flag anyway – it was better than being a spirit ball ghosting out. I gave the premade some choice words  – eg ” You’re a premade – why aren’t you trying?”  To which most of them responded ”  It’s to0 hard..  or we are gonna lose anyway..   and the BEST response ever to my “See you in the bottom 5% of rated” was  “Your wrong – there will be people worse than we are”

I told them they had an opportunity to try different stats,   and not stand in the GY getting farmed.  If I could sneak over every time.  Down the ramp,  over the tunnel,  so could some of them if they had tried.

I’ve been a farmer.  It’s a strat that works.  Keep them in the GY.  This only works if the team is stupid enough to stay in the GY. So yes it works often – don’t be stupid.  Think outside the GY.

I was perusing a guilds recruitment website the other day, and one of the questions was a long the lines of picking a song that represents your attitude to progression, and wiping has always been the realm of PVE,  and Arena,  and now it will be BG’s as well.

The best song that comes to mind for me is the chorus to Tubthumping

I get knocked down
But I get up again
You’re never going to keep me down

Or because I remember the hours, and the deaths of Progression dying –  Stone Sours  Made of Scars

Yeah, cut right into me
Yeah because I am made of Scars
Yes I am made of scars

Getting knocked down, and collecting a few battle scars has always been the way progression goes. I’ve done it in Pve

and in Pvp

If you want to go places you need to die few times.  Get back up,  try again,  and do it differently.  They would have felt so much more better if they had worked as a team instead of Ghosting out.

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